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01-17-2018, 09:21 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: toronto
Posts: 545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunForTheRoses
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Lets ask Jaramillo to justify that ride. Sorry, but my suspicion is that you dont screw up Ortiz, if your a good boy they will give you something later. You might not be outright fixing races but you are sure not riding them legit! But who cares what the degenerates think anyways
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01-17-2018, 09:27 PM
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#17
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clean money
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,512
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Hard for me to tell whether it was just an aggressive jock who went and controlled a paceless race, or anything more. Irad being on the outside of Javier also helped his cause after the break, where he could deny Javier any ideas about going to the lead.
Was a paceless race, and a bad field (a bum like the 2 was 6/5 chalk??)
Who knows...
At the very least, it was a timid/boneheaded race from Emisael Jaramillo
and the other jockeys.
I do know that I've dialed down my post-position bias plays @ 7.5f lately. Most of the jocks fail to adapt situational tactics and just pray for 'decent position' early, thus allowing outside horses to comfortably establish forward inside position half of the time...
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Last edited by Robert Fischer; 01-17-2018 at 09:30 PM.
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01-17-2018, 09:31 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,149
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I don't think it was that big of a deal, there was not much speed in race, if anything give irad (and that good young rider on the 7) credit for moving early. Jose's horse was not a speed horse.
If there's any conspiracy it would be this:
D'CRAZINESS bumped with MAJOR KEY early, appeared somewhat unsettled under restraint on the rail through the stretch the first time, remained under a firm hold through the backstretch run, continued to save ground and offered no response.
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01-17-2018, 09:34 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parlay
Lets ask Jaramillo to justify that ride. Sorry, but my suspicion is that you dont screw up Ortiz, if your a good boy they will give you something later. You might not be outright fixing races but you are sure not riding them legit! But who cares what the degenerates think anyways
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Out of the gate, after the minor bump, the 2 does look like he would have lead...and then not so much.
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01-17-2018, 09:36 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: toronto
Posts: 545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunForTheRoses
I don't think it was that big of a deal, there was not much speed in race, if anything give irad (and that good young rider on the 7) credit for moving early. Jose's horse was not a speed horse.
If there's any conspiracy it would be this:
D'CRAZINESS bumped with MAJOR KEY early, appeared somewhat unsettled under restraint on the rail through the stretch the first time, remained under a firm hold through the backstretch run, continued to save ground and offered no response.
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i agree. Jaramillo is the culprit. He dictated the non pace. How often did you see this scenario in NY last year. "Give me this one and i'll return the favour later". UNACCEPTABLE
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01-17-2018, 09:37 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parlay
In any other country they would through all these jocks in jail! Not saying the horse wasn't possible, but he should at least have to run to prove it. These Ortiz guys are importing the same shit that ruined NY. Just disgusting how the stewards can allow this.
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Superior jockey strategy and skills should be punished?
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01-17-2018, 09:45 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: toronto
Posts: 545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davew
Superior jockey strategy and skills should be punished?
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No. That is not what happened here. I DESCRIBED THE RIDE AS "acceded". I would like an explanation from Jaramillo how this might be a winning strategy. It is grossly unfair to the betting public when races are pretended to be run.
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01-17-2018, 10:11 PM
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#23
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parlay
Maybe CJ can comment on how slow that number is, i know it may not be a slow as it looks on its face. But how is the 3 back at the 1/4 and 4 at the 1/2 in those fractions? if he challenges in reasonable fractions and gets put away i sleep okay, but if your going to accede you should have to send out a twitter.
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The way the horses were moving, I'd wager that it was as slow as the time indicated.
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01-17-2018, 10:32 PM
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#24
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oughtoh
You also don't know what the trainers of those other horses told the jockeys
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Or who they bet on.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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01-17-2018, 10:36 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 433
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I watched the replay on mute one time.
I focused on the jockeys not the slow pace. The jockey on the lead rode high (highest) until the stretch. The others started sitting down after the half mile pole.
I don't see the outrage, but I'm just a novice.
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01-17-2018, 10:43 PM
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#26
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Or who they bet on.
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Hmmmmmm..........
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WE ARE THE DUMBEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET!
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01-17-2018, 10:44 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Mertz
I watched the replay on mute one time.
I focused on the jockeys not the slow pace. The jockey on the lead rode high (highest) until the stretch. The others started sitting down after the half mile pole.
I don't see the outrage, but I'm just a novice.
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Some feel the should have been on the lead and easy winner.
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01-17-2018, 10:55 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 355
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The jocks must have learned the pace factor from Eddie Cobb. If you ever went to Freehold back in the 70's you will know what I mean.
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01-17-2018, 11:03 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davew
Some feel the should have been on the lead and easy winner.
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I watched it again, focusing on horse and jock. If I got choked my first half of the race...well, judge for yourself.
Okay, parlay, I see your point of view.
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01-17-2018, 11:21 PM
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#30
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,816
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Based on the speed of the track the pace figures weren't all that slow to be honest, but certainly favored the leader. Before applying the track variant, the figures look like this:
1/2 103
3/4 98
Fin 111
The numbers were probably be a few points lower with track variant added, but the relationship between them won't change.
The Pace Projector had the 2 about 1.5 lengths in front of the 5 after the opening half. The charts indicates the 2 had some trouble at the start which may have gifted the 5 the lead, but I don't buy that looking at the replay. It looks like the 2 was consciously rated. Why that would be the case I have no idea. Trainer instruction?
Last edited by cj; 01-17-2018 at 11:23 PM.
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