Turf breeding

[andicap]

I'm thinking of returning to the wars soon, possibly with a primary focus on turf races. Are there any good up-to-date turf breeding references out there? Any which also focus on the dam as well as the sire? I know Timeform has breeding figure as does HTR.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by andicap

I'm thinking of returning to the wars soon, possibly with a primary focus on turf races. Are there any good up-to-date turf breeding references out there? Any which also focus on the dam as well as the sire? I know Timeform has breeding figure as does HTR.

I am not competent with breeding whatsoever, or how it pertains to handicapping.

The TimeformUS stuff has a lot of information, including the dam, sire, and siblings.

I'll look at the rating number, and I'll sometimes check for siblings. I give it a little bit of weight if it's something like a horse for decent connections or the same connections as sibling(s) who were good turf horses, and they've run a couple even races over dirt, and now entered in a turf route or something.

Other than stuff like that, I pretty much guess with general ability of the horse, and the trainer.

There may be other resources that PA members know about, and some members know a lot more than me about pedigree.

[BarchCapper]

Originally Posted by andicap

I'm thinking of returning to the wars soon, possibly with a primary focus on turf races. Are there any good up-to-date turf breeding references out there? Any which also focus on the dam as well as the sire? I know Timeform has breeding figure as does HTR.

I've enjoyed using STATS Race Lens and the ability to look at sire/dam/siblings and to use extra filters to narrow categories.

[jahura2]

BRIS has good info on the mares results pertaining to starters, and turf winners. You can take it one more step by looking up the dam and sires career results on the turf in Equibase.

[biggestal99]

Equine edge has a decent number called GSR.

Allan

[taxicab]

Look for these.......you'll get paid.

https://lanesend.com/thefactor

https://www.airdriestud.com/horses/cairo-prince.html

https://www.winstarfarm.com/horses/paynter-9263.html

[geroge.burns99]

Originally Posted by andicap

I'm thinking of returning to the wars soon, possibly with a primary focus on turf races. Are there any good up-to-date turf breeding references out there? Any which also focus on the dam as well as the sire? I know Timeform has breeding figure as does HTR.

Using breeding figs will lead you to the poor farm as everyone has access to it .

Theres 2 ways I look for with Turf Races...

1) Past Performances...How does/did the horse race prior on TURF

2) TRAINER....is probably most important .....How does he get a turf horse to the winners circle

GB

[deathandgravity]

BRIS Turf Pedigree rating has churned up some nice maiden wins for me.

[usfgeology]

Originally Posted by deathandgravity

BRIS Turf Pedigree rating has churned up some nice maiden wins for me.

This^^^. I've found this one to be one of the more successful angles. BRIS turf ratings for MCL races can be used to identify potential value horses. In Tampa, we have great turf races but the bottom levels can be tough to evaluate as trainers will start changing surfaces/distances/etc praying for a form change. I especially like the angle of looking for horses with good BRIS turf pedigree that have run in multiple consecutive races taken off-turf finally getting their chance to try the turf. This happens enough in Florida that it doesn't jump of the PPS and can be a profitable angle...especially when you factor in the connections.

Lastly....if you see this guy's kids running a flat mile on the turf....take it to the bank.
http://https://stallions.juddmonte.c...an/race-record

[Red Knave]

Originally Posted by deathandgravity

BRIS Turf Pedigree rating has churned up some nice maiden wins for me.

I agree this is good info for horses that have no record yet on turf and even those that may have had one or two starts. If a trainer is starting a horse on turf again after a poor race, maybe assume they know something. The sire and damsire individual ratings also have merit.
I also look at jockeys. Some very good dirt jocks are terrible on turf and there are a few vice versa (not many). Being able to generate momentum late, give themselves an open lane and be able to save energy for that last burst seems to be a dying art.

P.S. Good to see you posting.

[usfgeology]

Red Knave - good point about the jockeys. I'd even say one level deeper into the stats...ie. turf sprint % vs. turf route % for the jockey is often very different (i.e. Scott Speith at Tampa is like >20% turf sprinting and <5% turf routing).