Fractional Time Errors

[ultracapper]

I just watched the 8/4/17 8th at DelMar again, and I'd bet both the stretch call and final time are slow. I hand timed the race, which probably ain't much better than "thousand-1, thousand-2" counting, but I got a final time of 1:04.99. As poor as my hand timing is, I bet it isn't off a half second. If we can count on the 6.29 final 1/16th, it would make the 5f split at 58.70. Now the timing of the race makes a bit more sense. 21.86 45.81 58.70 1:04.99. That final 1/16th still looks relatively fast. Tried to hand time it. Couldn't do it reliably.

[cj]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

I just watched the 8/4/17 8th at DelMar again, and I'd bet both the stretch call and final time are slow. I hand timed the race, which probably ain't much better than "thousand-1, thousand-2" counting, but I got a final time of 1:04.99. As poor as my hand timing is, I bet it isn't off a half second. If we can count on the 6.29 final 1/16th, it would make the 5f split at 58.70. Now the timing of the race makes a bit more sense. 21.86 45.81 58.70 1:04.99. That final 1/16th still looks relatively fast. Tried to hand time it. Couldn't do it reliably.

I'll download it from Youtube and time it soon and see what I get.

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

I don't know if this is wrong, or if it has been addressed previously, so bear with me if necessary.

8/4/2017 DelMar 8th Mdn20 3u (f&m)

21.86 45.81 59.17 1:05.46
(23.95) (13.36) (6.29)


If those splits are right, that time between the 2nd and stretch call makes that final 16th look quite quick. The runaway winner set both those fractions, making the 6.29 look like acceleration after 5 furlongs. Very rare for cheap maiden claimers, and a big positive if reality.

6.29 appears a tad quick but the winner did win by an " official " 8 1/4 lengths or 7 if you use the TRAKUS scale. It's odd that Delmar and Santa Anita use Trakus as the official timer, but use Equibase for the official beaten lengths and margins at points of call. It's all a little confusing since their scales are a little different.

[cj]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

6.29 appears a tad quick but the winner did win by an " official " 8 1/4 lengths or 7 if you use the TRAKUS scale. It's odd that Delmar and Santa Anita use Trakus as the official timer, but use Equibase for the official beaten lengths and margins at points of call. It's all a little confusing since their scales are a little different.

Pretty sure all final times and margins at the wire come from the photo finish companies, not Trakus. Trakus has issues that prevent it from ever being official at the wire. It simply isn't accurate enough.

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by cj

Pretty sure all final times and margins at the wire come from the photo finish companies, not Trakus. Trakus has issues that prevent it from ever being official at the wire. It simply isn't accurate enough.

Final margins yes but the Trakus times are listed as the exact same times as the Equibase charts.

[cj]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

Final margins yes but the Trakus times are listed as the exact same times as the Equibase charts.

Yes, I said that wrong, photo finish doesn't time races. They time the gaps from the winner back. So, the times of all but the winner are taken from the photo company, not Trakus.

[ultracapper]

Thanks CJ.

[cj]

Posting this as I do the work.

Note run up listed as 45 feet.

Freeze time as winner hits wire, 2:40.86

Back up by 6.29, the time of the last half furlong...horse is clearly at least a length past the 1/2 furlong to go pole, probably 1.5 lengths.

Checked when horse was really at pole, 2:34.42, so actual time of last 1/2 furlong was 6.44.

Now back up from wire by official final time, 1:05.46, to the 1:35.40. Horses should be 45 feet out of the gate and at the 5.5f to go pole. Pole does not appear in site.

Skip frame by frame forward until I can see the start pole and the first horse is even with it. Figured out there is no pole visible for that marker best I can tell, so go back to gate and try to measure 45 feet from gate and note time. It is really tough to tell with certainty due to the angles, but the outside horse should be the one to start timing and he appears about 45 feet from the gate at the 1:34.36 point of the video. That would make the final time about 1:06.50

The problem there is there is no real way to know if the run up is being reported correctly. I know that when you back up by the final time from the wire, the horses have passed about 9 fence posts out of the gate. So, either the time is wrong (and the last sixteenth is definitely wrong), or the run up is wrong. I don't think there is any definitive way to know which it is since I can't find the pole for the 5.5f mark.

Timed from gate, gate starts to open at 1:32.46, so from gate 1:08.40 is the time.

[ronsmac]

Originally Posted by cj

Posting this as I do the work.

Note run up listed as 45 feet.

Freeze time as winner hits wire, 2:40.86

Back up by 6.29, the time of the last half furlong...horse is clearly at least a length past the 1/2 furlong to go pole, probably 1.5 lengths.

Checked when horse was really at pole, 2:34.42, so actual time of last 1/2 furlong was 6.44.

Now back up from wire by official final time, 1:05.46, to the 1:35.40. Horses should be 45 feet out of the gate and at the 5.5f to go pole. Pole does not appear in site.

Skip frame by frame forward until I can see the start pole and the first horse is even with it. Figured out there is no pole visible for that marker best I can tell, so go back to gate and try to measure 45 feet from gate and note time. It is really tough to tell with certainty due to the angles, but the outside horse should be the one to start timing and he appears about 45 feet from the gate at the 1:34.36 point of the video. That would make the final time about 1:06.50

The problem there is there is no real way to know if the run up is being reported correctly. I know that when you back up by the final time from the wire, the horses have passed about 9 fence posts out of the gate. So, either the time is wrong (and the last sixteenth is definitely wrong), or the run up is wrong. I don't think there is any definitive way to know which it is since I can't find the pole for the 5.5f mark.

Timed from gate, gate starts to open at 1:32.46, so from gate 1:08.40 is the time.

It may be a Trakus issue with the 1/16th pole measurement. Seaquet was also give a final 1/16th of 6.29 although she wasn't finishing like a tremendous machine, and Team Astrology was given 6.52 and she was walking late.

[cj]

Originally Posted by ronsmac

It may be a Trakus issue with the 1/16th pole measurement. Seaquet was also give a final 1/16th of 6.29 although she wasn't finishing like a tremendous machine, and Team Astrology was given 6.52 and she was walking late.

Could be, and really, who even knows if the poles are in the right place?

[cj]

Seriously, I'm getting too old for this shit.

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[ultracapper]

Thanks CJ. 11/16th pole, the pole that is the "official" beginning of the race, is behind that palm tree in the infield.

That's a creative method of timing races you employ. Very cool.

[cj]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

Thanks CJ. 11/16th pole, the pole that is the "official" beginning of the race, is behind that palm tree in the infield.

That's a creative method of timing races you employ. Very cool.

Cool, I'll check it out again. I figured there had to be one. I couldn't find it in the video.

[ubercapper]

Regarding the 9th race at Saratoga on 8/31- There was a timer malfunction so the time on the video is incorrect. The 47.85 split in the chart was provided by NYRA/Teletimer.

[Andy Asaro]

Originally Posted by ubercapper

Regarding the 9th race at Saratoga on 8/31- There was a timer malfunction so the time on the video is incorrect. The 47.85 split in the chart was provided by NYRA/Teletimer.

Ellis, at some point you gotta get mad at most of this B.S.