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Old 03-26-2012, 01:16 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FenceBored
Ummmm...they were telling people they were legally entitled to take that amount. They weren't.
No, they were telling people what the takeout rate was that they were charging, and they were taking that rate.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:13 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
No, they were telling people what the takeout rate was that they were charging, and they were taking that rate.
Yes. If a gas station has a "State Minimum Prices on Milk" sign in the window and their posted milk price is actually five cents over minimum, then they are misleading the consumer even though they're charging the posted milk price.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:06 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgers
The section includes the following wording:

“The retention rate to be established is subject to the prior approval of the racing and wagering board.”

Which means NYRA can not change the takeout rate, whether an increase or a decrease, without the prior approval of the NYSRWB.

While the current version of the section does establish a takeout rate of 15-25% for “exotic” wagers, it does not address the fact that the previous version of the section established the takeout at 26% by including any provision requiring NYRA to make a request to the NYSRWB for new takeout rates on “exotic” wagers.

Furthermore, the revised section went into effect on September 15, 2010. But there could not be any rate changes that day because the section includes the following wording:

“Such rate may not be changed more than once per calendar quarter to be effective on the first day of the calendar quarter.”

If the NY legislature wanted to make NYRA change the takeout rates immediately they should have made the effective date October 1, 2010. By making the effective dates on a day when no takeout rates changes could be made (and with no provision requiring them to request new rates), it could be argued that the NYRA “exotics” takeout rate was basically “grandfathered” and NYRA was not required to make any changes.
For 15 days, maybe. For 15 months? Getoutofhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgers
As I stated before, it is clear that NYRA can only charge takeout rates approved by the NYSRWB, which is what they did. To say the rest of the section of the statute is clear is absurd.
I'm sorry, which takes precedence: A) Statutory maximum takeout rates, or B) NYSRWB whim? A) trumps B). Law regulates the regulators. An approval of a takeout rate outside the limits set statute is not valid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgers
It is actually the NYSRWB (granted it is a state agency) requiring them to pay the customers that were effected and can be identified. However, I am of the opinion that rather then spend time and money defending their actions (or lack thereof) and create possible ill will with the NYSRWB, they opted to just “pay their penalty” and move on, especially since they are finally getting the VLT money.
You're actually going with 'the state isn't requiring it, the state agency that regulates their industry is requiring it?' Ok fine, how's this?
"And so can the State of New York, which is why the State, through the administrative agency with the authority to regulate parimutuel wagering, is requiring NYRA and the regional OTBs to make restitution to those who wagered with them directly on 3-5 horse exotics."
Better?

I am of the opinion that they didn't try to defend it, because they knew they'd lose. Given a choice between taking their medicine calmly and throwing a hissy followed by still having to take their medicine NYRA officials opted to retain some dignity.
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Old 03-26-2012, 12:16 PM   #49
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NY REGIONAL OTB'S ACCEPTING CLAIMS FOR REIMBURSMENT

Kudo's to NYRA for doing it automatically while regional OTB's are making you submit a claim for something that's yours. I do have a Nassau OTB account but only use it for tracks that NYRA does not take.

At least Nassau OTB so far:

"NYRA MISCALCULATED EXOTIC PAYOFFS"
NYRA (Belmont, Aqueduct, Saratoga) miscalcuted its takeout on winnings from Trifectas, Pick3, Pick4, and Superfectas from Sept. 15, 2010 to Dec. 18 2011.
Nassau OTB customers who:
1) Are account wagering customers
2) Have IRS wagerinf statements
3) Have uncashed winning tickets in these pools

-MAY SUBMIT CLAIMS FOR REIMBURSMENT OF RECALCUTED PAYOFFS

Claim forms and more information can be picked up at OTB Branches

Call your ADW!!

I'm just the messenger trying to help people get their money back
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:23 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
I agree with most of what you say. However, the steady rapid decline in handle means something has to be done to try to increase handle. Clearly, raising takeout doesn't work any longer. Also clearly, keeping it the same doesn't help either. If there is any interest in the survival of the sport, somebody is going to have to try something drastic. After all, even stupid politicians can figure out that 26% of nothing is nothing.
I agree, but this takes me right back to original point.

Why would the government want to lower the take to help horse racing if currently the money is simply shifting from racing to casinos and lotteries and they are making as much or more that way and can eliminate the costs of racing?

If you think of all gambling as one giant pie that is stilll growing but also shifting between forms, the only thing the government needs to be interested in is that they have a piece of the action wherever it's shifting. The form is more or less irrelevant.

Helping racing by making it more attractive will probably not grow the overall gambling pie. It will probably just shift money from somewhere else back to racing.

That thinking is why they are addressing poker and ulimately sports, but not paying much attention to horses.

Poker and sports money was starting to shift off shore and they don't have a piece of that action. So they have the justice department cracking down on offshore sites.

Ultimately, IMO poker will be approved (and IMO so will sports betting), but it will be run by whoever paid off whichever corrupt politcians control that decision making and the government will have a peice of the action.

I'm not sure how to fix this mess long term, but I think the only hope is for consolidation of the tracks and for the tracks to become independent of the government other than paying taxes on profits and some minior regulation.

If they could consolidate, there would only be handful of highly profitable tracks.

If they were free of government, they could use the excess profits to make the track a more attractive experience, lower the take, and compete with other forms of gambling.
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Last edited by classhandicapper; 03-26-2012 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:43 PM   #51
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My guy Steve at Twinspires says he knows nothing about it. I assumed that I would just be creditted the refund just like in my NYRA Rewards account.
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