Woodbine Purses Slashed

[Sea Biscuit]

By almost 10% as of 1st April 2010

I had always maintained that their new urging rule was a bad idea.

The animal lovers never caught on and never thronged the grandstands as some thought they would.

[LottaKash]

What a dialectic....I mean, the t-breds can't fill a 3/4's of "Million dollar race, as all they could come up with is 5 entrants and the 6th is a claimer for the Wood Memorial on Sat....Monmouth is going to give $5K-claimers a $30,000.00 purse to try for....And, some invited horses refuse to race for $5,000,000.00.....Go figure...

So now we have honest to goodness race horses on the trotting side of things, and they are going to cut the purses.....I don't get it....

Horse racing on both sides of the breeeding, is going to have a Giant-shake out, and quite soon I think....It all seems to be coming to a sudden end, all of a sudden....

Look at Balmoral, imagine $1800 purses, what kind of stock do they think they will attract with those kinds of numbers....Sayonnara, Chicago Racing....It was a fun ride, and I enjoyed it when it was riding high, at least until the horsemen got greedy, and the public caught on, and would no longer forgive the umteenth scandal.....Windy City folks just do not trust the product anymore....It is over there, period....I don't even download Balmoral or Maywood programs any longer....Too bad, I really liked Chicago racing when it was run right....

Pennsylvania tracks are charging way too much for their product, and I believe it is just a matter of time before they die at all the PA tracks...Chester has a highly commendable product, but the fans just won't buy into the high takeouts, and they won't come out to the track...Thus, how long will they and Pocono, and the Meadows survive the game....Slots will only take them so far....How can anyone play at those tracks with serious kash ?...The take is so high on gimmicks...

M1, just look at their revamping, imagine the "mecca" of harness racing, on a 3-day a week schedule, and the flats are out this year....What is next for NJ racing...?....I truly believe that the management at the Big-M have seen the light, and are willing to, and are making some adjustments....I wish them well, and hope there will be improvement there...They are the pulse of harness-racing, and if they go, the end is much nearer for the others, I think....

Who & What is next this year, anywhere in racing...?....NOt looking too good, I am afraid...

best,

[Sea Biscuit]

Originally Posted by LottaKash

What a dialectic....I mean, the t-breds can't fill a 3/4's of "Million dollar race, as all they could come up with is 5 entrants and the 6th is a claimer for the Wood Memorial on Sat....Monmouth is going to give $5K-claimers a $30,000.00 purse to try for....And, some invited horses refuse to race for $5,000,000.00.....Go figure...

So now we have honest to goodness race horses on the trotting side of things, and they are going to cut the purses.....I don't get it....

Horse racing on both sides of the breeeding, is going to have a Giant-shake out, and quite soon I think....It all seems to be coming to a sudden end, all of a sudden....

Look at Balmoral, imagine $1800 purses, what kind of stock do they think they will attract with those kinds of numbers....Sayonnara, Chicago Racing....It was a fun ride, and I enjoyed it when it was riding high, at least until the horsemen got greedy, and the public caught on, and would no longer forgive the umteenth scandal.....Windy City folks just do not trust the product anymore....It is over there, period....I don't even download Balmoral or Maywood programs any longer....Too bad, I really liked Chicago racing when it was run right....

Pennsylvania tracks are charging way too much for their product, and I believe it is just a matter of time before they die at all the PA tracks...Chester has a highly commendable product, but the fans just won't buy into the high takeouts, and they won't come out to the track...Thus, how long will they and Pocono, and the Meadows survive the game....Slots will only take them so far....How can anyone play at those tracks with serious kash ?...The take is so high on gimmicks...

M1, just look at their revamping, imagine the "mecca" of harness racing, on a 3-day a week schedule, and the flats are out this year....What is next for NJ racing...?....I truly believe that the management at the Big-M have seen the light, and are willing to, and are making some adjustments....I wish them well, and hope there will be improvement there...They are the pulse of harness-racing, and if they go, the end is much nearer for the others, I think....

Who & What is next this year, anywhere in racing...?....NOt looking too good, I am afraid...

best,

Very good analysis John. It does not look good does it?

I just hope we are not forced to sit behind those one armed bandits ourselves one day.

[markgoldie]

John:

I certainly respect your opinion, but I think you are equating problems with an averted holocost, particularly in regards to harness racing.

There is a vast difference between t-bred and h-racing in one particular aspect and this is, the potential profitability to owners. The difference occurs because of the much greater racing frequency of the s-bred. While I don't have any statistics on this, it's obvious that the s-bred can easily race 30-40 time per year, whereas the t-bred races a fraction of that. This, of course is due to the perishability of the animals. T-bred racing is simply far more stressful on the animal.

As a result, the slot bills in Pa. and to some degree NY have actually made ownership of s-breds attractive again. In fact, there is a plethora of money chasing available racing stock. How much money? Well, The Meadows, for example, began demanding step ups for claimed animals for a 3-week period simply because they felt the number of claims per race was getting out of hand. While this new rule has dampened the "rent-a-horse" claiming spree that we had seen in 2009, it still did not prevent 10 claims on a single $15,000 claimer from being paced about two weeks ago. That's right. A single horse drew $150,000 into the claim box by himself.

With this type of ravenous enthusiasm, it's difficult to predict the demise of the sport any time soon. And getting back to my original point, try to imagine where the sport would be without slots at this moment. NY. and PA. harness racing was on the verge of falling into an abyss before slots. Without it, there would be no Chester or Tioga and while the situation in IL. is terrible, these two new tracks alone nearly off set the demise of BMLP and MAY. In fact, without slots, NY., DEL, and PA. would be racing glorified fair meets at this moment, as is the case in OH. and IL.

Right now we have $30,000 claiming animals racing at The Meadows, Pocono, Yonkers, Meadowlands, Dover, and potentially Hoosier. And soon we will add Chester. I submit that without slots the only track in the U.S. which could race a $30,000 claimer would have been The Meadowlands.

As I have said before, the problems in horse racing as far as handle is NOT related to the product being served up. Compared to the past, harness racing is night and day more honest. For this, the racing commissions deserve some credit as their on-going expulsion of bad actors and use of the "exclusionary rule" has changed the landscape completely. The current breed of drivers is all about winning and advancing their careers through performance. I have been in and around this business for my entire adult life and have never seen this degree of straight-up honesty.

Years ago, I responded to Stan Bergstein who was bemoaning the inability to catch trainers who use drugs to get better performances out of their horses. His normal flair for the dramatic had these trainers destroying the sport. He pointed to the patrons standing under the TV sets at Yonkers who were screaming, "Kick in with the juice!" as the races ran. This, he predicted, would soon be the end of harness racing if it were not stopped. I responded in an article run by "Times In Harness" that even though cheating trainers were something of a concern, at least this was all about winning. In that sense, it was a change into the moral sunlight because not long before this, the commentary under TV screens had been about "stiffing" drivers and fixed races. In short, although some may be trying a bit too hard, at least everyone is trying to win.

The loss of handle is due to more and more wagering options on the part of the public and nothing more. In addition, these other options do not require the type of study and expertise necessary to be a successful handicapper of horses. Therefore, horse racing will never again attract the type of interest it once did when it was virtually the only game in town for those wanting to gamble. Since these other options are and will continue to expand, anyone who thinks that better marketing, a better product, or even lower takeout can reverse this tide is delusional. In fact, the only thing bringing new money to the wagering table is the expansion of new ownership of racing animals brought on by the favorable investment environment created by slots' money. New owners like to bet on their horses and in the process, are likely enjoy betting on some that they do not own.

So, while we have significant problems, things could be much, much worse.

[DeanT]

There is a very good summary via youtube by Darryl about harness racing on SC.

For those who have some time and any interest, he outlines some of the pressing issues, esp with slots cash quite well.

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/new...d-meeting.html

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by markgoldie

John:

I certainly respect your opinion, but I think you are equating problems with an averted holocost, particularly in regards to harness racing.

So, while we have significant problems, things could be much, much worse.

HaHa...Mark, how so ?.....Mark I always respect your opinions and thoughts about horse racing, but on this one, I don't believe that you can rationalize-away the impending demise and doom of harness racing......Saying that saddens me much, I'm afraid...

Heck, I would love to make a $50 win bet at Chester, Pocono or the Meadows without rocking the odds....And I would love to play the gimmicks at those same tracks without first giving up 1/3 of my bet for the privilege of doing so.....So how has slots preserved anything, except to the benefit of the horsemen, who seem to get the best of it........"F" the bettors and the loyal race fans, is that it, in PA, and elsewhere ?.......Casinos "WIN", Horsemen "WIN", and the Bettors "LOSE"....They (racinos) say and think, as I see it, just give us your money, that is all we need from you, is that it ?.....That seems to be what we have gotten from Racino's, and as soon as they get tired of keeping the dying racetracks afloat, that "will" be the end.....I am preparing for that eventuality already......I don't see it any other way of going, at least as of lately....Sad..

The Flats are heading for a gigantic shake-up as well, and I think eventually, after the dust has cleared, they will survive much better that the Trots, but, in a whole new way.....With the advent and success of internet wagering, everything has changed in both sports of horse racing, and that aspect must be included into a new way of thinking, but, how it ultimately ends up, will take a whole lot of creativity, to ultimately do any good for the health and survival of the game.....

Perhaps it will end up something like the Japanese or HongKong horse racing models.....or something, who knows ?......It just ain't working too good these days, and that is what I see right in front of me...

best,

[markgoldie]

John:

Maybe we're talking about two different things here. If you're talking strictly about returning to handles of the heyday, as I said, that will not happen. Period. If you're talking about the ability to make money wagering, particularly through lower takeouts, then I agree, slots have not made this any easier.

But if we're talking the prospects of tracks physically closing due to economic realities, then slots have certainly made a tremendous difference. And so, PA. has added one new track and NY. has added one. And I don't think that the others are in danger of closing (although I'm not really up on the developments at Vernon and that historically-troubled venue).

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by DeanT

There is a very good summary via youtube by Darryl about harness racing on SC.

For those who have some time and any interest, he outlines some of the pressing issues, esp with slots cash quite well.

http://www.standardbredcanada.ca/new...d-meeting.html

Did he ever say anything about lowering takeout or did I just miss it?

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by markgoldie

John:

Maybe we're talking about two different things here. If you're talking strictly about returning to handles of the heyday, as I said, that will not happen. Period. If you're talking about the ability to make money wagering, particularly through lower takeouts, then I agree, slots have not made this any easier.

But if we're talking the prospects of tracks physically closing due to economic realities, then slots have certainly made a tremendous difference. And so, PA. has added one new track and NY. has added one. And I don't think that the others are in danger of closing (although I'm not really up on the developments at Vernon and that historically-troubled venue).

Mark, I am not trying to win any points of contention, I just see what I see, and from my chair it doesn't bode too well for the long-life of harness racing....

It just ain't getting any better, in fact, with each successive year, it is only getting worse, as I perceive it.....How much worse will it get, I don't know, but I know that, I lament the old days in passing....

best,

[Pacingguy]

Originally Posted by Sea Biscuit

By almost 10% as of 1st April 2010

I had always maintained that their new urging rule was a bad idea.

The animal lovers never caught on and never thronged the grandstands as some thought they would.

These are not my words:

...Instead of asking, "Should whipping be banned?" the correct question for the industry to ask is:

How and when should we decrease the incidence of whipping so as not to pose a threat to ourselves and so as not to alienate new patrons?

This comes from the latest Zielinski report commissioned from by the USTA. Granted, without reading the whole section of the report, it is unfair to judge the whole statement and the context but the fact remains Zielinski was dead on in her first report 20 years ago and she is probably correct about this and other things in this report.

I will be discussing the latest report on my blog shortly. This is one piece. While you may not like what Dr. Zielinski says about whipping, you will be very pleased with other segments of her report. I just bring this up to indicate, whipping is going to stop; it is inevitable.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW

Did he ever say anything about lowering takeout or did I just miss it?

He mentioned exchange betting, but not takeout this time around.

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

He mentioned exchange betting, but not takeout this time around.

I've never heard him say takeout needs to be lowered on what is offered now.

He still wants to know how harness racing can get to $10 million pools that will attract bettors.....maybe someone should inform him that with 27% takeout it's not going to happen.

[Trotman]

I can't believe nobody gets it. This is nothing but empty
talk. The USTA and SC are two similar organizations with
their own member tracks and the last time I looked the two
biggest tracks do not belong to both. The Meadowlands is a
member of the USTA and WEG is a member of SC. This is
just like elected politicians,as long as they can protect
which they believe is theirs and line their pockets they will
say whatever they feel will appeal to us the bettors like they are doing what ever to make it better or save it.
Nothing but BULL ***T.