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06-09-2018, 08:39 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 53
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Congrats To Communist China Management LLC
On there Triple Crown with Justify. You seem like great ambassadors to our American Sport.
But in seriousness, hard to click with a horse when its owners are them. Like yay who cares....
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06-09-2018, 08:41 PM
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#2
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Resurrectionist
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Cheyenne, Wy
Posts: 3,615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerbyJackpot
On there Triple Crown with Justify. You seem like great ambassadors to our American Sport.
But in seriousness, hard to click with a horse when its owners are them. Like yay who cares....
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WTF are you talking about? Get out of here.
__________________
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06-09-2018, 09:45 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 234
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What the hell are you on about?
First, racing has never been an inclusively American sport, even in America. The first Triple Crown winner was owned by a Canadian. The previous Triple Crown winner was owned by an Egyptian. Who cares?
Second, China Horse Club is not even the majority owner of Justify, WinStar is. And they are very much an American outfit. So even if you can't 'click' with CHC (whatever that means), you could at least be happy for Troutt and the others at WinStar.
What a stupid thread.
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06-10-2018, 12:48 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlsoEligible
What the hell are you on about?
First, racing has never been an inclusively American sport, even in America. The first Triple Crown winner was owned by a Canadian. The previous Triple Crown winner was owned by an Egyptian. Who cares?
What a stupid thread.
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It's actually not that stupid, considering how many U.S. horse players appear to really resent "foreigners" entering "our" races.
To me, it is an international sport.
Without the Arabians, Turks and Barbs that are native to the Middle East, there would have been no mates for the English mares....and without the British, we would not have had any horses to race in U.S. for their races in around 1665.
Last edited by clicknow; 06-10-2018 at 12:51 AM.
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06-14-2018, 11:22 AM
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#5
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,651
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I agree...stupid thread. But, stupid threads are still allowed.
I never got why horseplayers cared much who owned the horse. Unless it was some goldmine dude, like the guy who owned California Chrome...now HE was funny...
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07-03-2018, 11:25 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lakehurst, NJ
Posts: 1,035
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In the 1963 D.C. International, one horse's owner was listed as "Hungarian Government" and another "U.S.S.R." The Hungarian horse, whose name escapes me at the moment, finished seventh I believe (in a field of 10), while the Russian horse, Bryansk (named for a Russian city), finished last.
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07-03-2018, 07:40 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
I agree...stupid thread. But, stupid threads are still allowed.
I never got why horseplayers cared much who owned the horse. Unless it was some goldmine dude, like the guy who owned California Chrome...now HE was funny...
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Normally, I could care less about who owns a horse, but with the China Horse Club, you literally have no clue who comprises that club, they are secret. The NY times found this out when it tried to track down who really owns Jystify. It couldn't, but it did unearth George Soros's share if the golden goose, which disturbs me more than the Chinses tbh.
This sport has enough transparency problems as it is. If ownership is allowed to be completely secret, you could have the same owners secretely owning every horse in the starting gate. Do you feel safe wagering on races like that? Do you think such situations are going to benefit the sport?
There is no reason for horse ownership to be secret. The secrecy of the China Horse Club smacks far too closely of the secret art seller situation that has made art auctions one of the chief money laudering avenues in the world. That the last word on the Coolemore deal was that it was on hold until Sept in order to avoid capital gains taxes, doesn't help.
Here's a scenario from the art world to ponder: A would be money lauderer goes around secretly buying up works by an unknown artist. No one knows who the buyer is, or that the buyer is all the same person. The "sales" create a false market for the artist, generating manufactured interest at auction. The secret owner begins off loading the works at auctions, sometomes bidding against himself to artificially raise the market value. Then he begins the real sales, and each piece sold is an exchange of ill gotten gains for clean money. The buyer and even the auction house have almost no way to determine with whom they are dealing.
Is that so far from Justify's situation? Secret owners buy a horse everyone passes on, including Spendthrift, for $600,000 (question, if everyone passed on him, who was the opposing bidder? Given his problems, he logically should have gone for half what he did). Sit on him for a 9 months. Inexplicably, sell him (he could be Windstar's Tapit or A P Indy) to a buyer that has no way to learn with whom it is dealing, but then delay the actual sale for 4 months to avoid paying taxes that should not apply given current ownership has ostensibly owned the horse for more than a year. There is a red flag for every sentence in this paragraph.
FWIW a sale is not a sale until finalized. If whatever agreement was reached qualifies as a true contract, taxes accrued immediately. No taxes. No sale. When you have $75M on the table, the last thing you want to do is give the buyer time to think themselves out of the expenditure. Four months is a long time.
Anywho, if owners insist on secrecy, I insist on the right to disparage them for doing so.
Want to know how I know Magnier is not a money launderer? He sells his art at auction for £157M under his own name.
Last edited by papillon; 07-03-2018 at 07:45 PM.
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07-03-2018, 07:55 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,768
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i heard someone mention that George Soros owns a good chunk of this horse..
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07-06-2018, 06:12 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
I agree...stupid thread. But, stupid threads are still allowed.
I never got why horseplayers cared much who owned the horse. Unless it was some goldmine dude, like the guy who owned California Chrome...now HE was funny...
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Yeah, the thread I began titled, China Horse Club, on this very same subject linking the NYT investigative piece, weeks ago on May 6 was stupid then, too. I guess.
Still sucks that money laundering by the Chinese is ongoing. Given, here in our country, we sorta frown on it in that it can land one in federal prison for a long while.
We'll never learn the identities of the Chinese shareholders. Good old communism frowns on it, too. Apparently.
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07-06-2018, 07:35 PM
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#11
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,651
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Yeah, IMO it was. We have no control over who owns or trains a horse. Nor should we. So why fret over it? Makes no sense to me.
For every "reprehensible" owner, there are multiple feel-good stories out there in the horse world.
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07-11-2018, 05:21 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papillon
There is no reason for horse ownership to be secret.
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There is no reason for horse veterinary records not to be available to bettors, either.
It is very meaningful to me to know if a horse has had ESWT, etc.
I"m sure I'm not the ONLY bettor who has wagered on a horse who is actually a cripple in some respect.
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