Surprised not to see any discussion of the Lake Placid Photo Finish

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

You don't think NYRA promotes Saratoga in this fashion?

Because every time I watch their track feed, the commentators are always saying it.

Makes sense to you I guess.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

You don't think NYRA promotes Saratoga in this fashion?

Because every time I watch their track feed, the commentators are always saying it.

It's certainly the premier meet in the country. If not, what's your pick?

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

It's certainly the premier meet in the country. If not, what's your pick?

I agree! Which was my point! The premier meet shouldn't make mistakes like this.

PA turned it into something tangential.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I agree! Which was my point! The premier meet shouldn't make mistakes like this.

PA turned it into something tangential.

"that a track that purports to be the most important in the nation"

Your use of the word "purports" caught my attention.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

"that a track that purports to be the most important in the nation"

Your use of the word "purports" caught my attention.

Caught mine too....Looks like Dilan should have chosen a more appropriate word to make his point.

purport

VERB
purports (third person present)
appear or claim to be or do something, especially falsely; profess.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Caught mine too....Looks like Dilan should have chosen a more appropriate word to make his point.

purport

VERB
purports (third person present)
appear or claim to be or do something, especially falsely; profess.

I was using "purports" to contrast a championship racing product with a photo finish system that would be unacceptable at Grants Pass Downs.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I was using "purports" to contrast a championship racing product with a photo finish system that would be unacceptable at Grants Pass Downs.

What photo finish system does NYRA use? They they build their own custom version?

Maybe they call it the "Premier Photo Finish System" or PPFS for short?

[toddbowker]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

You know, color is optional (horse racing had accurate black and white photos for decades) and the length of the horses can always be inaccurate with a slit camera. Any horse running slower than the speed that the film or digital equivalent travels across the shutter will look elongated. That doesn't affect the accuracy of the noses on the wire.

Same thing happened in the old days of black and white film. I placed a race at River Downs (which also didn't have lights) where the film strip (negative) was essentially clear other that the saddle towel and head numbers (this was back when both were black with white numbers). We knew it would happen, so we sent one person down to the wire (me), had one judge in the TV room and one in the stand. We all collaborated over radio. Fortunately we didn't have something approaching a dead heat.

The main advantage of film was that it enlarged better than printing a compressed computer graphic file with a dot matrix (or even laser) printer. Also, broadcasting the photos over CCTV further distorts the images, and doubly so when you are talking about encoded streaming video. Over compression, compressing multiple times, and/or editing compressed files will all make images look far far worse than viewing them on a monitor in the placing judge's stand.

Originally Posted by AskinHaskin

the public as a whole, via the mutuel pools, collectively retained much less money given the dead-heat than would have been the case had there been a stand-alone winner (no matter which of the pair it would have been).

Not true. The takeout is the takeout. It doesn't change because there is a dead heat. The public as a whole collectively retained the same amount of money (other than a possible change in breakage). An individual person may have received a smaller payout, but not the public as a whole.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by toddbowker

at.

The main advantage of film was that it enlarged better than printing a compressed computer graphic file with a dot matrix (or even laser) printer. Also, broadcasting the photos over CCTV further distorts the images, and doubly so when you are talking about encoded streaming video. Over compression, compressing multiple times, and/or editing compressed files will all make images look far far worse than viewing them on a monitor in the placing judge's stand.

NO they don't NOT with today's technology....I had lots of old 35 MM film around and messed with it for comparison sakes and with today's cameras that is not longer the case.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

What photo finish system does NYRA use? They they build their own custom version?

There are only about three major companies that are mainstream and many use the same one as Woodbine Finish Lynx. I understand that a Japanese one is comparable.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

What photo finish system does NYRA use? They they build their own custom version?

Maybe they call it the "Premier Photo Finish System" or PPFS for short?

They should (1) install lights (they can afford it!) and (2) use any photo finish system that is successful at one of the many tracks in North America that has twilight racing.

I mean, what did they use at Hollywood Park before they closed? I saw several race cards where the track was obscured by fog and rain, where the sun was setting or night had fallen, and the photo finishes always came out fine no matter the conditions.

Considering that NYRA knows that there are weather and darkness issues at Saratoga (this is not a new phenomenon) and the race meet makes all sorts of money for NYRA, this is not a big ask.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

There are only about three major companies that are mainstream and many use the same one as Woodbine Finish Lynx. I understand that a Japanese one is comparable.

FWIW, one of the other sports I follow is track and field and Finish Lynx has a less than stellar reputation in that sport. Their equipment has broken down in some meets, forcing judges to go to hand times and to rely on their eyeballs. (Having said that, track and field photo finishes are harder- the equipment has to be portable and you have to measure the torso which requires a higher resolution photo than the nose bob of a horse race does.)

[georgetkingiv]

I had something similar occur to me this morning in the third race at Kempton Park. I called for an exacta box of the Albadar and the Loving Glance and as they turned into the home straight Loving Glance was in the lead but in the the last few feet Albadar appeared have gotten up right on the line to win the race. The race caller thought so too but almost immediately the graphic flashed on the screen that Loving Glance had won the race followed by a RaceTech photo of the finish that appeared to confirm the result. I thought that to be a little little odd because usually there is short wait for the the judges to split the horses when it's that close of a photo finish but they almost immediately delcared Loving Glance the winner. Now all I had to do was wait for the money to be deposited into my account because I had boxed the exacta but after 15 minutes the money had still not been deposited and I was begining to wonder what was going on. When it finally was deposited into my account it paid much better than I expected it to which is when saw and realized the order of finish had been amended. I then later on read the story about the whole fiasco over on The Sun's website.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/horse...-wrong-result/

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

FWIW, one of the other sports I follow is track and field and Finish Lynx has a less than stellar reputation in that sport. Their equipment has broken down in some meets, forcing judges to go to hand times and to rely on their eyeballs. (Having said that, track and field photo finishes are harder- the equipment has to be portable and you have to measure the torso which requires a higher resolution photo than the nose bob of a horse race does.)

That may or may be true, but it is irrelevant as it relates to the photo finish competence in HORSE racing.

The tech even showed us that in the Middle East they use it with camel racing.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by georgetkingiv

This same thing happened to me this morning in the third race at Kempton Park. I called for an exacta box of the Albadar and the Loving glance and as they turned into the home straight Loving Glance was in the lead but in the the last few feet Albadar appeared have gotten up right on the line to win the race. The race caller thought so too but almost immediately the graphic flashed on the screen that Loving Glance had won the race followed by a RaceTech photo of the finish that appeared to confirm the result. I thought that to be a little little odd because usually there is short wait for the the judges to split the horses when it's that close of a photo finish but they almost immediately declared Loving glance the winner.

They VIEWS (plural) available to the stewards are NOT exactly the same as what the crowd see..CLOSE but not always the same

Australian and English placements come up a lot faster than any I have ever witnessed in North America