Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 09-06-2020, 09:29 AM   #1
JustRalph
Just another Facist
 
JustRalph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,611
Starting to see Baffert as a villain?

After yesterday’s Kentucky Derby win.......

I think the shine is off Baffert.

Used up his allotment of good will?
__________________
WE ARE THE DUMBEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET!
JustRalph is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 09:38 AM   #2
pandy
Registered User
 
pandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRalph View Post
After yesterday’s Kentucky Derby win.......

I think the shine is off Baffert.

Used up his allotment of good will?
I agree. He's an obvious cheater. Horses that run fast early slow down in the final quarter. Occasionally there will be a freak like a Secretariat that can run fast early and late, but that's rare. The only other way to get a horse to finish like that is to pre-race them.

I posted three articles on my Facebook page, one about Justify's hidden drug positive, one about the 7 horses of his that dropped dead mysteriously (and he wasn't even fined), and another about the two positives for banned substances at Oaklawn this spring.

Before the Derby, on NBC, Randy Moss did mention the two drug positives that Baffert had at Oakawn. So people who might be new racing fans hear that and then a half-hour later they find out that the same guy just won his sixth Derby.
pandy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 09:43 AM   #3
owlshead
Registered User
 
owlshead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 15
both of his horses sure seemed geeked up, one was scratched... perhaps, a little too amped up? the other... winner, winner.
owlshead is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 09:49 AM   #4
Robert Fischer
clean money
 
Robert Fischer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 23,512
Villain? How about Hall of Fame Great? 'Legend' even...

Bob Baffert / Best trainer over the dirt surface in the game. In the world.

Great owners, great stock.

Generates a lot of revenue, and he's a class act.

Hall of famer.


don't fall for the conspiracy theorists, or the haters on Twitter...

Baffert is a winner.
__________________
Preparation. Discipline. Patience. Decisiveness.
Robert Fischer is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 09:54 AM   #5
pandy
Registered User
 
pandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fischer View Post
Bob Baffert / Best trainer over the dirt surface in the game. In the world.

Great owners, great stock.

Generates a lot of revenue, and he's a class act.

Hall of famer.


don't fall for the conspiracy theorists, or the haters on Twitter...

Baffert is a winner.
Conspiracy theories would be a rationale if he didn't have so many horses that got drug positives. With the 7 horses of his that dropped dead from cardiac seizures, that was because of drugs that he was giving them.
pandy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 10:05 AM   #6
castaway01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Fischer View Post
Bob Baffert / Best trainer over the dirt surface in the game. In the world.

Great owners, great stock.

Generates a lot of revenue, and he's a class act.

Hall of famer.


don't fall for the conspiracy theorists, or the haters on Twitter...

Baffert is a winner.
Baffert is a good interview and he's trained some of my favorite horses in the past 30 years, but how are the seven dead horses and the drug positives a "conspiracy theory"? Did the horses not really drop dead out of nowhere? Ignoring the bad things he's done (and, in your case, claiming they are fake) because he's a good interview is pretty weak on your part.
castaway01 is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 10:15 AM   #7
pandy
Registered User
 
pandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by castaway01 View Post
Baffert is a good interview and he's trained some of my favorite horses in the past 30 years, but how are the seven dead horses and the drug positives a "conspiracy theory"? Did the horses not really drop dead out of nowhere? Ignoring the bad things he's done (and, in your case, claiming they are fake) because he's a good interview is pretty weak on your part.
Yes, there's no question that generally speaking, Baffert has shown a good face to the sport most of the time (not always, he whines and complains when he doesn't get his way in Southern California). But his cheating is as obvious as it can be because you just don't get that lucky to have superstar horses, even if you buy expensive horses. Other trainers get to train very expensive well bred horses, like Pletcher, the Godolphin stables, and horses trained by Bill Mott, etc., and they win a lot of stakes races, but their horses run good races, not sensational races. Naturally, if you train a lot of good horses for a long time, eventually you may be lucky enough to get one horse that sets world records and does amazing things. But not a whole slew of them.
pandy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 10:27 AM   #8
lamboguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,654
Baffert didn't win the Derby, TIZ THE LAW lost it. he was compromise'd before the race even started.. he ran that race with glue on shoes. on his front feet. all you had to do was look at the shoe board before the race to know. or in my case, have a friend tell you.. it stopped me 100% from betting him to win.
lamboguy is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 10:30 AM   #9
lamboguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,654
and by the way, i knew he ran with those things on most of the year, but he had already lost on the Churchill Downs surface. he is not at his best on that oval with front glue on's.
lamboguy is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 10:30 AM   #10
Parkview_Pirate
Registered User
 
Parkview_Pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy View Post
Yes, there's no question that generally speaking, Baffert has shown a good face to the sport most of the time (not always, he whines and complains when he doesn't get his way in Southern California). But his cheating is as obvious as it can be because you just don't get that lucky to have superstar horses, even if you buy expensive horses. Other trainers get to train very expensive well bred horses, like Pletcher, the Godolphin stables, and horses trained by Bill Mott, etc., and they win a lot of stakes races, but their horses run good races, not sensational races. Naturally, if you train a lot of good horses for a long time, eventually you may be lucky enough to get one horse that sets world records and does amazing things. But not a whole slew of them.
I agree that the stats for Baffert indicate his ponies are not just running on hay, oats and water. Naturally, it doesn't prove anything, but reading between the lines it should give everyone pause. And in a sport that has significant public relations problems with perceived integrity, it's an excellent question to ask if Baffert is a net good or bad influence overall.
Parkview_Pirate is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 10:58 AM   #11
pandy
Registered User
 
pandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboguy View Post
and by the way, i knew he ran with those things on most of the year, but he had already lost on the Churchill Downs surface. he is not at his best on that oval with front glue on's.
I think trainer Barclay Tagg, who has won over $63 million in purses in his career, knows how to shoe a horse. The other time Tiz The Law raced at Churchill the track was sloppy, yesterday it was very fast.
pandy is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 11:29 AM   #12
lamboguy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandy View Post
I think trainer Barclay Tagg, who has won over $63 million in purses in his career, knows how to shoe a horse. The other time Tiz The Law raced at Churchill the track was sloppy, yesterday it was very fast.
this horse has front foot problems, he has the best person in America shoeing this horse. glue ons generally hamper the ability of a horse to perform as well as horses that wear nail in shoes.

trust me, if there was a spot on this horse's front foot to bang nails into, he would have run with normal shoes.
lamboguy is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 11:38 AM   #13
MJC922
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,506
Looking at the numbers it was a formful result really.. especially given that the favorite who is obviously a classy horse got floated out on the first turn, worked hard to finally get a head in front and then was understandably empty after switching leads. Without the float he's two in front mid stretch and Bob's not coming back even with the best clen program in town which everyone should know by now. He's also the king when it comes to wiring grade ones on moderate paces which are usually assisted by stablemates playing watchdog but in this case Paco gets the assist. Give the guy credit under the current system he somehow usually finds a way to bulk them up like linebackers and make them stay the distance.
__________________
North American Class Rankings

Last edited by MJC922; 09-06-2020 at 11:42 AM.
MJC922 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 11:39 AM   #14
letswastemoney
Registered User
 
letswastemoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,207
Baffert horses secure the lead comfortably over and over again. I'm frustrated that other jockeys continually let Baffert speed horses off easy on the lead.

With Gamine, I guess she really didn't want the distance as she didn't have it late.
letswastemoney is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 09-06-2020, 11:56 AM   #15
KingAnon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 26
The media loves him and has loved him even dating back to the 90's.

No matter what he does or doesn't do, he will always get positive coverage.
KingAnon is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.