"b" Notation in Claiming Races

[Jeffwb]

Hello, so I've noticed this Summer, and I've been handicapping a lot of Cby, that the n2L, n3L, etc. condition is instead being given the "b" notation after the claiming price just because state breds get an extra race. I don't think that is right. If the condition is "Non-winners of two lifetime or Non-winners of three lifetime if bred in xxx" that should still notate as, say, 10000n2L no? I'm pretty sure that at Cby last Summer it included the n2L, n3L, etc. but now this Summer everything is getting the "b" next to it. Not only is this not helpful, but it's messing up some of the par times for the class as well. Typically the races that have the "b" are the tougher varieties of claiming races.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Jeffwb

Hello, so I've noticed this Summer, and I've been handicapping a lot of Cby, that the n2L, n3L, etc. condition is instead being given the "b" notation after the claiming price just because state breds get an extra race. I don't think that is right. If the condition is "Non-winners of two lifetime or Non-winners of three lifetime if bred in xxx" that should still notate as, say, 10000n2L no? I'm pretty sure that at Cby last Summer it included the n2L, n3L, etc. but now this Summer everything is getting the "b" next to it. Not only is this not helpful, but it's messing up some of the par times for the class as well. Typically the races that have the "b" are the tougher varieties of claiming races.

"b" or "B"?

[wisconsin]

Originally Posted by Jeffwb

Hello, so I've noticed this Summer, and I've been handicapping a lot of Cby, that the n2L, n3L, etc. condition is instead being given the "b" notation after the claiming price just because state breds get an extra race. I don't think that is right. If the condition is "Non-winners of two lifetime or Non-winners of three lifetime if bred in xxx" that should still notate as, say, 10000n2L no? I'm pretty sure that at Cby last Summer it included the n2L, n3L, etc. but now this Summer everything is getting the "b" next to it. Not only is this not helpful, but it's messing up some of the par times for the class as well. Typically the races that have the "b" are the tougher varieties of claiming races.

Race is for "beaten claimers", hence the b. It's essentially a race that has 2 possible conditions. It's a non-winner of x number of races lifetime OR non winners of x number of races since a specific date. The latter can give you a class edge in these races.

[Jeffwb]

It's lower case. And I guess then because in this case one has non-winners of say two races OR state bred non-winners of three races technically does imply the use of the "b". It's just that if a track has every n2L, n3L, etc. race (that is not for state bred) that also has this extra condition for state breds in non-state bred races then implies the of the "b" and never the n2L, n3L, etc. That's just kind of annoying because then all those other conditions that traditionally use the "b" get lumped in with the n2L, n3L, etc. races notation wise.

[thespaah]

Check this out.
Is it possible that the (b) notification is for the claiming price bump for Minnesota Breds.
I pulled this from the Canterbury Condition Book
7
SEVENTH RACE ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING
PURSE $28,000. (INCLUDES $19,600 FROM THE MYSTIC LAKE PURSE ENHANCEMENT FUND)(PLUS
$10,000 FROM MBF FOR MN BREDS) FOR THREE YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD WHICH HAVE NOT WON
TWO RACES OTHER THAN MAIDEN, CLAIMING, TRIAL, OR STATE BRED SINCE JANUARY 29 OR
WHICH HAVE NOT WON A RACE OTHER THAN MAIDEN, CLAIMING, TRIAL, OR STATE BRED SINCE
APRIL 29 OR WHICH HAVE NEVER WON THREE RACES OTHER THAN MAIDEN, CLAIMING, TRIAL, OR
STATE BRED OR WHICH HAVE NEVER WON FOUR RACES OR CLAIMING PRICE $35,000.
Three Year Olds 119 lbs. Older 124 lbs.
Non-winners Of A Race At One Mile Or Over Since June 29 2 lbs.
CLAIMING PRICE $35,000, Minnesota Bred Claiming Price $50,000
ONE MILE
8
EIGHTH RACE ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING
PURSE $25,000. (INCLUDES $17,500 FROM THE MYSTIC LAKE PURSE ENHANCEMENT FUND)(PLUS
$9,000 FROM MBF FOR MN BREDS) FOR THREE YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD WHICH HAVE NEVER
WON A RACE OTHER THAN MAIDEN, CLAIMING, STARTER, TRIAL OR STATE BRED ALLOWANCE OR
WHICH HAVE NEVER WON TWO RACES OR CLAIMING PRICE $12,500.
Three Year Olds 119 lbs. Older 124 lbs.
Non-winners Of A Race Since June 29 2 lbs.
CLAIMING PRICE $12,500, Minnesota Bred Claiming Price $20,000
SIX FURLONGS

[Jeffwb]

Originally Posted by thespaah

Check this out.
Is it possible that the (b) notification is for the claiming price bump for Minnesota Breds.
I pulled this from the Canterbury Condition Book
7
SEVENTH RACE ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING
PURSE $28,000. (INCLUDES $19,600 FROM THE MYSTIC LAKE PURSE ENHANCEMENT FUND)(PLUS
$10,000 FROM MBF FOR MN BREDS) FOR THREE YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD WHICH HAVE NOT WON
TWO RACES OTHER THAN MAIDEN, CLAIMING, TRIAL, OR STATE BRED SINCE JANUARY 29 OR
WHICH HAVE NOT WON A RACE OTHER THAN MAIDEN, CLAIMING, TRIAL, OR STATE BRED SINCE
APRIL 29 OR WHICH HAVE NEVER WON THREE RACES OTHER THAN MAIDEN, CLAIMING, TRIAL, OR
STATE BRED OR WHICH HAVE NEVER WON FOUR RACES OR CLAIMING PRICE $35,000.
Three Year Olds 119 lbs. Older 124 lbs.
Non-winners Of A Race At One Mile Or Over Since June 29 2 lbs.
CLAIMING PRICE $35,000, Minnesota Bred Claiming Price $50,000
ONE MILE
8
EIGHTH RACE ALLOWANCE OPTIONAL CLAIMING
PURSE $25,000. (INCLUDES $17,500 FROM THE MYSTIC LAKE PURSE ENHANCEMENT FUND)(PLUS
$9,000 FROM MBF FOR MN BREDS) FOR THREE YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD WHICH HAVE NEVER
WON A RACE OTHER THAN MAIDEN, CLAIMING, STARTER, TRIAL OR STATE BRED ALLOWANCE OR
WHICH HAVE NEVER WON TWO RACES OR CLAIMING PRICE $12,500.
Three Year Olds 119 lbs. Older 124 lbs.
Non-winners Of A Race Since June 29 2 lbs.
CLAIMING PRICE $12,500, Minnesota Bred Claiming Price $20,000
SIX FURLONGS

Those are both optional claiming races. The second one you listed there would be listed as O12500n1x and the first one would have a different listing yet. Your right in that even a 5000n2L claiming race at Cby would give the MN bred not only an extra win to qualify but a slightly higher claiming price as well. But in either case I don't think that is the reason for using the "b". But adding the "b" has not been a constant theme in optional claiming even this year. But last Summer a 5000n2L was listed correctly even with the extra win allowance for MN breds and the higher claiming price allowance.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by wisconsin

Race is for "beaten claimers", hence the b. It's essentially a race that has 2 possible conditions. It's a non-winner of x number of races lifetime OR non winners of x number of races since a specific date. The latter can give you a class edge in these races.

excellent explanation-thanks

[Tom]

Isn't that good thing?
Confusion that you know possibly exists in a certain type of race that the majority of the crowd might not know....seems like a good thing to know.

Back in the day, before anything other than the claiming prices were printed, I kept notes of all the conditions and caught many a good price.

[Jeffwb]

Originally Posted by Tom

Isn't that good thing?
Confusion that you know possibly exists in a certain type of race that the majority of the crowd might not know....seems like a good thing to know.

Back in the day, before anything other than the claiming prices were printed, I kept notes of all the conditions and caught many a good price.

True, I could take the glass half full approach on this to be sure. Good point. The only down side is it kind of messes up the BRIS class pars for those races by including those that would have been better left as n2L, n3L, etc. But reading your reply definitely gives me a boost to see the other side.

[ultracapper]

You definitely need to take the half full approach. Understanding the subtlety between conditions is one of the nuances handicappers can take advantage of. So much money is thrown into the pools by punters that don't give the conditions of a race anything but a cursory glance, and the qualifications of entry are ultra important.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by wisconsin

Race is for "beaten claimers", hence the b. It's essentially a race that has 2 possible conditions. It's a non-winner of x number of races lifetime OR non winners of x number of races since a specific date. The latter can give you a class edge in these races.

In a claiming race for winners there are three designations to tell us about the conditions.

The first is most self explanatory. N2L, N3L means Haven't won 2 or 3 in their life.

Next is N2X. This is what's called a "clause race" In the condition book it will say "which have not won 2 races" But in this type race there's more to the story. At the bottom of the condition explanation it will say something like "races where entered for $4000 or less not considered. That means a horse could have 10 lifetime wins for $4000 but those races don't matter for today's eligibility.

Finally the lower case "b" stands for a beaten race. What beaten means is to be eligible there are time passed conditions. For example it will say "non winners of a race since March 7 2020 (six months) or September 7 2019 (year). Sometimes they'll even do two years to give real beetles a chance.

It's those races where handicappers have to be careful. A big win can be deceiving in that the winner could have defeated a group that was really awful and helpless. When you see the "b" go back in the charts and check how long the time restriction was. In theory the shorter the tougher the race.

[The_Turf_Monster]

Tracks have ben doing this for the better part of the last decade for claiming races so that they fill or at least get enough entries to run the race. You rarely see open claiming anymore and the n2L, n4L, etc are mostly reserved for the MNR and CT’s of the world. It’s not that tricky until you see one where the kitchen sink is thrown at the conditions and you see ‘OR’ more than 1 time

You can make a lot of money if you pay attention to this, especially in a state like Maryland that simply pays a bonus if the horse was conceived/bred/or foaled in Maryland

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

In a claiming race for winners there are three designations to tell us about the conditions.

The first is most self explanatory. N2L, N3L means Haven't won 2 or 3 in their life.

Next is N2X. This is what's called a "clause race" In the condition book it will say "which have not won 2 races" But in this type race there's more to the story. At the bottom of the condition explanation it will say something like "races where entered for $4000 or less not considered. That means a horse could have 10 lifetime wins for $4000 but those races don't matter for today's eligibility.

Finally the lower case "b" stands for a beaten race. What beaten means is to be eligible there are time passed conditions. For example it will say "non winners of a race since March 7 2020 (six months) or September 7 2019 (year). Sometimes they'll even do two years to give real beetles a chance.

It's those races where handicappers have to be careful. A big win can be deceiving in that the winner could have defeated a group that was really awful and helpless. When you see the "b" go back in the charts and check how long the time restriction was. In theory the shorter the tougher the race.

"Beetles".....