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Old 08-24-2021, 09:58 AM   #46
JeremyJet
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You're the man, Vic.

A buddy told me who you had in the Thoro-Graph seminar, but I wish I got the email Jeff mentioned. I never got it.

Are you the handicapper doing the Thoro-Graph analysis for the West coast tracks throughout the year?
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Old 08-24-2021, 11:51 AM   #47
v j stauffer
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Originally Posted by classhandicapper View Post
Vic,

Should we assume the core of your handicapping is Thorograph and then you add insights onto that?
I wouldn't use the word core. Well maybe.

Before I began using ThoroGraph I was trading dollars but not really making a sustained profit.

I was doing it by using the traditional methods. LOTS of replay work. Anticipating race shape. Riding the wave of hot barns and by far the most important element. Work Ethic.

I could look at every race for 2 hours and go back again to make sure I didn't miss anything.

That's still in place today.

What ThoroGraph has done for me is eliminate making bets that in retrospect couldn't win no matter what.

All the pieces in place. The stars perfectly aligned. Everything could go exactly as I forecasted and I'd run a well beaten 4th. Why?

THE HORSE SIMPLY WASN'T FAST ENOUGH.

Now with ThoroGraph that never happens. So it's allowed me to pass on a ton of losing bets.

The next most important thing with TG is it allows me to know that a short price favorite is no better on numbers than 3 or 4 others in the same race.

When I see that. A race that looked garbled or maybe not worth attacking becomes one I'll dive much deeper into.

Any group of good handicappers I think would agree. The road to value goes straight through who we can eliminate rather than include. TG is invaluable in that regard.

Another plus is economical usage of time. I can look at a card and identify races that will be impossible grab bags in 30 seconds. Set them aside and have that much more time for opportunities.

Which brings me to an OFF TOPIC opinion.

I believe trying to cap more than 2 tracks on a consistent basis is a HUGE mistake. For me I concentrate solely on two circuits at a time. Usually NYRA and Southern California.

I will switch in Ky, which doesn't help with time zones, When good Churchill or Keeneland and certainly Ky. Downs are open. I usually do that when they're at Los Alamitos.

When Oaklawn is running I switch down to only one track. There's a couple of reasons for that. I have to do a live handicapping presentation on TV everyday and that takes extra prep. Plus during that time I'm calling the races making it very difficult to pay the requisite amount of attention to NYRA or So. Cal.

Truth be told my handle plummets during Oaklawn. Also, I've become a tournament player far more than day to day. I'd burn out VERY quickly doing all the work that's needed to feel confident on a daily basis.

I once said to Tina. "Baby we made $200,000 this year betting horses" She said that's nice. Figure it out you're getting paid $11.18 an hour

My focus now is pretty much on Huge days. Or Huge tournaments.

I've already started my preliminary work for the BCBC which isn't until November. I've cashed 4 of the last 5 years. 7th last year. It's not unusual for me to play that Tourney and not make another bet until Oaklawn opens the third week of January. This year we start Dec. 3.

So getting back to the original question.

I suppose core is a good word. It's one of a myriad of tools I use. But I can 1000% assure you this. Without ThoroGraph I would never bet a nickle!
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Old 08-24-2021, 12:07 PM   #48
v j stauffer
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Originally Posted by JeremyJet View Post
You're the man, Vic.

A buddy told me who you had in the Thoro-Graph seminar, but I wish I got the email Jeff mentioned. I never got it.

Are you the handicapper doing the Thoro-Graph analysis for the West coast tracks throughout the year?
No. That's David Levine and he's terrific. Roger Vice also does a lot of analysis. Both are elite.

Jerry Brown of ThoroGraph has been comping me sheets for 35 years. Aside from an occasional live seminar and testimonials on social media, I've never been able to properly thank him. Show my gratitude.

I would constantly say to him. Please figure out a way I can repay you for decades of generosity.

He and Jeff "Crafty" Franklin came up with the idea of the TGPS seminars. They're a ton of work and I need Tina to help with computer elements. But we're averaging 3 or 4 a month.

Last week's ASTRONAUT seminar not only went to all TGPS members. But TG made it available to every one.

Joining TGPS is very easy. Comes with signup bonuses and perks. There's a wagering threshold. But it's not a ton of $$

www.thorograph.com

Finally a way to thank Jerry. It's my pleasure to do them.

Here's a link for last weekend's presentation.

https://us06web.zoom.us/rec/share/CO...=1629431847000

I'm taking this week off. But the man himself, Jerry Brown, is doing a full Travers seminar that's available on Thursday. Well worth checking out IMO.
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Old 08-24-2021, 05:11 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by v j stauffer View Post
All the pieces in place. The stars perfectly aligned. Everything could go exactly as I forecasted and I'd run a well beaten 4th. Why?

THE HORSE SIMPLY WASN'T FAST ENOUGH.
I used to fall into that trap too often too.

I think that's the best use of figures.

Usually, I'm looking for horses I think are better or worse than they look on paper (including their figures), but the figures will keep you off horses that are too slow to win even if they have some hidden advantage or had a tough trip recently. Now, I'll still use horses like that, but I focus way less on the win and more on trying to get them on a ticket in the verticals.
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Old 08-24-2021, 07:23 PM   #50
v j stauffer
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I used to fall into that trap too often too.

I think that's the best use of figures.

Usually, I'm looking for horses I think are better or worse than they look on paper (including their figures), but the figures will keep you off horses that are too slow to win even if they have some hidden advantage or had a tough trip recently. Now, I'll still use horses like that, but I focus way less on the win and more on trying to get them on a ticket in the verticals.
Spot on correct IMO
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Old 08-24-2021, 10:32 PM   #51
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Hi Vic- Not do divert from the main subject of this thread but you mentioned you sometimes look at a race for 2 hours. Is that only when your playing in a tournament or just a for the normal day at the races. If your are just playing for the day, do you handicap multiple tracks or just pick one and focus on that. I fall into the trap of chasing my money when I am down or thinking I am on a hot streak and just playing more races bc its going so well. I have been a serious capper for only about 6-7 years and I still lack such discipline. I guess I am just curious how a professional like you handles the trigger to bet multiple tracks or races? During a given week or season like now for example are there tracks you will not play?

Sorry i know this is a multi loaded question and I dont mean do take away from the inital topic of this thread. Just want some advice from a seasoned vet like you. Thanks my man.

Any others please feel free to respond as well. I think I just need a class in discipline. LOL
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Old 08-24-2021, 11:20 PM   #52
v j stauffer
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Hi Vic- Not do divert from the main subject of this thread but you mentioned you sometimes look at a race for 2 hours. Is that only when your playing in a tournament or just a for the normal day at the races. If your are just playing for the day, do you handicap multiple tracks or just pick one and focus on that. I fall into the trap of chasing my money when I am down or thinking I am on a hot streak and just playing more races bc its going so well. I have been a serious capper for only about 6-7 years and I still lack such discipline. I guess I am just curious how a professional like you handles the trigger to bet multiple tracks or races? During a given week or season like now for example are there tracks you will not play?

Sorry i know this is a multi loaded question and I dont mean do take away from the inital topic of this thread. Just want some advice from a seasoned vet like you. Thanks my man.

Any others please feel free to respond as well. I think I just need a class in discipline. LOL
FRMN is addressed all that in a couple previous posts.

Check them out. If you have any other questions please feel free.
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Old 08-24-2021, 11:53 PM   #53
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FRMN is addressed all that in a couple previous posts.

Check them out. If you have any other questions please feel free.
Thanks vic. Sorry for asking repeat questions again. Was that info covered in this thread or another post. Thanks for your help
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Old 08-25-2021, 12:04 AM   #54
v j stauffer
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Thanks vic. Sorry for asking repeat questions again. Was that info covered in this thread or another post. Thanks for your help
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Old 08-25-2021, 12:15 AM   #55
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Great. Thank you Vic. Much Appreciated!!!
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