Best 3YO Male Thus Far?

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Who is the best 3YO male thus far?

[cj]

I don't know who is best, but I'd say Forte is the division leader. He has two wins over Mage and a good 2nd in the Belmont. Arcangelo's big win is at 1 1/2 miles, let's see him do it at shorter. His Peter Pan was fine, but that wasn't a strong race.

Mage is still eligible for NW2X allowance, he needs to do more even with a Derby win.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by cj

I don't know who is best, but I'd say Forte is the division leader. He has two wins over Mage and a good 2nd in the Belmont. Arcangelo's big win is at 1 1/2 miles, let's see him do it at shorter. His Peter Pan was fine, but that wasn't a strong race.

Mage is still eligible for NW2X allowance, he needs to do more even with a Derby win.

Can't argue with any of that.

Forte is the leader in the clubhouse right now IMO. Has even had some bad trips, but always shows up and finishes.

Maybe going forward would be the better question?

[jay68802]

Forte is the best horse, at 1 1/8 miles or less.

[HottalkersinKY]

next time forte runs there will be no question who the best 3 year old is

[cj]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Forte is the best horse, at 1 1/8 miles or less.

2nd in the Belmont and you limit him to 9f?

[myohmyjustify]

How quickly we forget.

Two Phil's last three races, Jeff Ruby, Kentucky Derby and Ohio Derby were tops in my book. Yes, he's retired but the OP's question was thus far.

So, thus far, is it Two Phil's fault that no one --especially those well-known experts in the TV broadcasting world and in social media-- basically ignored his very high speed figure at Turfway, his game effort when he was the sole survivor of the extremely fast Kentucky Derby pace and his brilliant open lengths win in the Ohio Derby.

[cj]

Originally Posted by myohmyjustify

How quickly we forget.

Two Phil's last three races, Jeff Ruby, Kentucky Derby and Ohio Derby were tops in my book. Yes, he's retired but the OP's question was thus far.

So, thus far, is it Two Phil's fault that no one --especially those well-known experts in the TV broadcasting world and in social media-- basically ignored his very high speed figure at Turfway, his game effort when he was the sole survivor of the extremely fast Kentucky Derby pace and his brilliant open lengths win in the Ohio Derby.

He won a race on synth, ran great in the Derby, and won the Ohio Derby. That isn't much of a resume even for "so far".

[bisket]

Arcangelo is the best 3 year old. The first time he was in the clear to run in the Belmont he cruised to the lead easily without Havy asking. Havy started working on him when he was 2 lengths in the lead. Arcangelo did lose his action late. Just because Forte finishes in the money at 1 1/2 miles doesn't mean he can get anything past a mile in grade 1 competition. Yeah he beat Mage in the Florida Derby, but Mage's jock had him all over the place in that race. Mage stopped and started multiple times and ran a 1 1/4 race that day. I think the jock has really done a great job with Forte. He's managed to win a grade1 at 1 1/8 mile and finish second at 1 1/2 mile with only asking Forte to run a 1/16 of a mile in either race. Forte will lose to a couple of legitimate routers that are able to maintain their run for 3/16 to 1/4 of a mile. Forte is just running to his breeding. end of story.... I'm interested in seeing who wins when Mage and Arcangelo hook up. My money will be on Arcangelo. It's a shame Two Phils won't be there because I feel he's right there with those two.

[myohmyjustify]

Originally Posted by cj

He won a race on synth, ran great in the Derby, and won the Ohio Derby. That isn't much of a resume even for "so far".

Believe what you want while dismissing both of Two Phil's high-figured win at Turfway and his blow out romp in Ohio.

Forte's own speed figures --made by you--didn't improve after winning the BC Juvenile, at about 117 or so. And that is with all that crap Todd probably gives his runners.

Plus, aside from Mage's Derby win, not a single horse that Forte beat in Florida has ever done anything of significance as far as I know.

Two Phil's demonstrated class, speed and quality in the three most important races in his career. And he certainly didn't his racetrack to run well, winning at 5-6(?) different racetracks.

Thus far, he was the best of the bunch, by far, by very far. It's a shame Two Phil's got hurt, obviously.

[cj]

Originally Posted by myohmyjustify

Believe what you want while dismissing both of Two Phil's high-figured win at Turfway and his blow out romp in Ohio.

Forte's own speed figures --made by you--didn't improve after winning the BC Juvenile, at about 117 or so. And that is with all that crap Todd probably gives his runners.

Plus, aside from Mage's Derby win, not a single horse that Forte beat in Florida has ever done anything of significance as far as I know.

Two Phil's demonstrated class, speed and quality in the three most important races in his career. And he certainly didn't his racetrack to run well, winning at 5-6(?) different racetracks.

Thus far, he was the best of the bunch, by far, by very far. It's a shame Two Phil's got hurt, obviously.

I agree he may very well have been the best, but when talking things like Division Leaders and Eclipse Awards I try not to use speed figures unless it is very close. I try to stick to accomplishments.

If there was a mid-season Eclipse, say Jan 1-Jun 30, he wouldn't win in my opinion. I have no argument with anybody thinking he was the best. Unfortunately, his connections tried to save him for bigger races that never happened instead of running in the Preakness.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by myohmyjustify

Believe what you want while dismissing both of Two Phil's high-figured win at Turfway and his blow out romp in Ohio.

Forte's own speed figures --made by you--didn't improve after winning the BC Juvenile, at about 117 or so. And that is with all that crap Todd probably gives his runners.

Plus, aside from Mage's Derby win, not a single horse that Forte beat in Florida has ever done anything of significance as far as I know.

Two Phil's demonstrated class, speed and quality in the three most important races in his career. And he certainly didn't his racetrack to run well, winning at 5-6(?) different racetracks.

Thus far, he was the best of the bunch, by far, by very far. It's a shame Two Phil's got hurt, obviously.

Like Two Phil's, Arabian Lion also owns two high BSF this year, & like Two Phil's also earned those in what I consider lesser races. However, on paper, the Woody Stephens is a Grade 1 & so trumps Two Phil's on that score.

Another horse that's earned a higher BSF than Two Phil's is Fort Bragg.

Fort Bragg is significant because he comes out of the Florida Derby, won by Forte. Blazing Sevens also came out of that race & acquitted himself quite well in the Preakness, a race that was notable for the absence of Two Phil's.

Meanwhile, the "who did he beat" angle ought to be applied to Two Phil's. Perhaps the best horse to come out of Two Phil's wins this year is Major Dude, who won a subsequent Grade 3 on turf. Despite that win, the trainer did not think enough of the horse to take on Grade 1 company in the Belmont Derby, electing to run in a lesser race at the same track the same weekend. He lost.

Finally, you accuse the so-called experts of ignoring Two Phil's' top class efforts, but more significantly, his own connections ignored those efforts. Despite those races, they chose to hold the horse out of both the Preakness & the Belmont, races that had he won Two Phil's would be in the frame for an Eclipse award (& a major stud deal) even in retirement.

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by cj

He won a race on synth, ran great in the Derby, and won the Ohio Derby. That isn't much of a resume even for "so far".

Yep. so far his best race is at that distance. He has finished in a good position, but was very non-competitive in longer races. I had this view before the Derby, and will stick with it until proven wrong.

[classhandicapper]

I think one or two 3yo are going to break out from the others who mostly look mediocre to me. It may even be a relatively new shooter. I haven't been overly impressed with any of them other than maybe Fort Bragg. I thought his losing effort in his next to last race was very good (bet him that day uggh). But I'm not sure how far he wants to run. I guess Saudi Crown has to be in the mix also as a horse that can jump forward. Arcangelo is improving, but he got a ground saving trip. I'm not even sure he was best in the Belmont. A horse like Forte has been good, but I don't think he's developing at a pace that's going to keep him at the top of the division.

[Maximillion]

The odds of one or two of these breaking out or a new shooter coming along and surpassing them all is probably something like 2-5.

the problem is which one?

I'll go with one of the Japanese horses as an entry if any of them return.