Religion II

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Wow! I don't know what I'd do without your fake pearls of wisdom. But let's fly with your implied premise that Jesus was unique. (Of course, he wasn't so unique when you gave praise to Buddha a few weeks ago -- but be that as it may...) And I'd bet my life that if you lived 4,500 lifetimes. you would never come to the knowledge of the depth of His uniqueness, since you're so ignorant of His Word.

You are wrong as usual. Jesus has always been unique to me regardless of what I say about the Buddha who is also unique.

Originally Posted by boxcar

By appealing to Christ's divinity (incarnation), you have unwittingly dug an even deeper pit for yourself.

I'm shaking in my boots.

Originally Posted by boxcar

If sin (spiritual/moral failure) is such hot stuff that is NECESSARY for spiritual growth, how come the entire tenor of scripture warns us to STOP SINNING? How come mankind is warned to repent of its sins and turn to God?

As Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". We all sin. It is normal. But to get to a higher level, it takes growth and pain is part of growth.

Originally Posted by boxcar

So...since the Last Adam never had any personal knowledge of evil, since he never failed in order to succeed or grow or to acquire a God-consciousness (whatever that is) or to achieve "enlightenment" -- and since Jesus always relied 100% on the leading and power of the Holy Spirit, then what excuse could the Last Adam possibly have had for failing the test!? He not only had every advantage over each one of us, but also had advantages over Jesus himself! Another way to look at the First Adam's advantages is by examining Adam's pre-Fall experience with God-- and I know how BIG you are on stressing experience over everything else, including the Word of God. Since Adam had the indwelling Holy Spirit within him and he was created in God's pristine, perfect paradise, the following passage would apply to Adam's "all-important" spiritual experience. You'll appreciate this passage, I'm sure -- (NOT!).

To put it simply, if Adam was on the same level spiritually as Jesus as you argue, Adam would have never eaten from the forbidden fruit. Adam was no Jesus.

When Jesus said "My Father's house has many rooms" he was referring to these different spiritual levels.

Originally Posted by boxcar

In fact, the evidence is strong that Adam was truly cast out of God's presence forever when God "drove" him from the Garden.

Actually Adam and Eve exiled themselves from the Garden. It is not God who keeps us in exile it is ourselves, then and now. Adam and Eve is the Christian religion's attempt to explain why we are in the predicament we are in.

For example, the Fall of A&E represents the transition from Eternal time in the Garden to the realm of clock time we are in now .

Upon A&E eating the fruit, they discover the world of "duality" such as good and evil, male and female, etc. which we live in.

Also there is the separation between God and man through fear.

The way back to the garden is through the second Adam as you call him. Jesus tries to bring the unity between God and man such as "I and the Father are one". "Love thy neighbor." "Love your enemies "etc.

In both cases the Fall of man and man trying to find his way back, the experience is in our consciousness. It is not God punishing us but us punishing ourselves and projecting our fears on God. Such as " I am bad" or "I am Sinful" etc. which is what Adam and Eve made themselves believe.

To find our way back to the garden we must overcome our fears and hates. This is Ego and is illusion. That's why I keep saying it takes spiritual growth to achieve higher consciousness and growth requires surrender of your comfort zone which usually results in some form of pain.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

You are wrong as usual. Jesus has always been unique to me regardless of what I say about the Buddha who is also unique.

So which unique person is superior to the other?

I'm shaking in my boots.

You should be, but there's no fear of God before your eyes. Therefore, unless you repent, you will perish for all eternity with all the other antichrists in the world.

As Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". We all sin. It is normal. But to get to a higher level, it takes growth and pain is part of growth.

But it's not normal from God's perspective. And you're interpreting the above text out of context. How dishonest of you. Your ego won't allow you to escape your own deceitfulness, will it?

And you keep equating sin with pain, which it is not. Pain is a consequence of sin. Pain is the effect of sin; sin is the cause.

To put it simply, if Adam was on the same level spiritually as Jesus as you argue, Adam would have never eaten from the forbidden fruit. Adam was no Jesus.

As I said in my last post, Adam had advantages over Jesus. The only difference between the First Adam and the Last Adam (a biblical phrase, by the way, since Adam was a type of Christ) is that the Last Adam submitted himself to God's will and chose wisely. He also submitted to the leading and the power of the Holy Spirit. Adam freely chose to not trust his Creator, in spite of all the knowledge of God and experiences he had with Him in the Garden.

When Jesus said "My Father's house has many rooms" he was referring to these different spiritual levels.

That's your allegorical interpretation, which is not supported by scripture. You hate the true Jesus so much that you think nothing or bastardizing his Holy Word. There's nothing to suggest various spiritual levels. Only in your imagination do they exist.

Actually Adam and Eve exiled themselves from the Garden. It is not God who keeps us in exile it is ourselves, then and now. Adam and Eve is the Christian religion's attempt to explain why we are in the predicament we are in.

Actually, they didn't. God's anger burned so much against Adam, that He drove him out of the Garden. Another example of you playing loose and sloppy with your "best friend's" Word. If you don't like what the Word says, you think that you have license to make things up that will appeal to you. That is a form of deceitfulness and scripture says that no liar will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Rev 21:8
8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
NASB

As for the ejection from the Garden, the pertinent passage says this:

Gen 3:22-24
22 Then the Lord God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever" — 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove THE man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim, and the flaming sword which turned every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life.
NASB

Two things: THE man is the object of God's ejection. Eve went with Adam because they were man and wife, and Eve and her husband needed to fulfill God's mandate to procreate and fill the earth. But God's anger clearly was directed at "THE" man in vv. 21, 23 and 24. Eve is not mentioned in this passage because, as I have argued in the past, God reconciled Eve to himself.

Secondly, the term "drove" ("garash") is very strong in the Hebrew and is frequently used in the OT of God's enemies or the enemies of his chosen people Israel. It means to "thrust out", to expel, to put away. And interestingly, it's also used to express divorce. Why this last usage is so revealing is that the Church of God is called Christ's "bridegroom", metaphorically. And even in the OT, God "divorced" his Old Covenant people Israel because of her unfaithfulness to Him (Jer 3:8). In essence, therefore, God "divorced" or separated himself from Adam because of his grievous transgression (unfaithfulness) but stayed "married" to Eve by His reconciling grace and mercy. (In fact, several years ago, I wrote a post or two on how Eve is a type of Church!)

And not only did God drive Adam out of the Garden but he stationed very powerful angels to KEEP THE MAN OUT!

For example, the Fall of A&E represents the transition from Eternal time in the Garden to the realm of clock time we are in now .

There was no "eternal time" in the Garden; for the Garden was created in space and time.

Upon A&E eating the fruit, they discover the world of "duality" such as good and evil, male and female, etc. which we live in.

Also there is the separation between God and man through fear.

The way back to the garden is through the second Adam as you call him. Jesus tries to bring the unity between God and man such as "I and the Father are one". "Love thy neighbor." "Love your enemies "etc.

In both cases the Fall of man and man trying to find his way back, the experience is in our consciousness. It is not God punishing us but us punishing ourselves and projecting our fears on God. Such as " I am bad" or "I am Sinful" etc. which is what Adam and Eve made themselves believe.

To find our way back to the garden we must overcome our fears and hates. This is Ego and is illusion. That's why I keep saying it takes spiritual growth to achieve higher consciousness and growth requires surrender of your comfort zone which usually results in some form of pain.

Adam and Eve's sin was real. Neither God or Jesus were delusional and just imagined they sinned. And just because you keep saying that pain and suffering and misery produce spiritual growth doesn't make it so. If sin is so good for the human condition -- for promoting spirituality -- God would not have had to send Jesus into this world to atone for the sins of his people. Your theory has no scriptural support. Everywhere in scripture, sin is condemned. Everywhere -- from Genesis to Revelation.

You think you're so smart and so clever in trifling with and manipulating your "best friend's" holy Word to make yourself feel good and to sound so wise and enlightened when God actually mocks the ungodly wisdom of this world!

[thaskalos]

If we posted a poll question, asking the readers here to either side with Boxcar or Light in the "true Christianity" debate...I wonder what the final tally would be. My guess is that Boxcar would only receive his own vote.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If we posted a poll question, asking the readers here to either side with Boxcar or Light in the "true Christianity" debate...I wonder what the final tally would be. My guess is that Boxcar would only receive his own vote.

Agreed. Boxcar does nothing but blackwash his "supposed" faith. He's about as Christian as Stalin.

That's why I suggested early on in this thread it was mis-titled, as Boxcar's idea of the one true religion only makes the average Joe desire to go to Hell to avoid further contact with him.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by Parkview_Pirate

That's why I suggested early on in this thread it was mis-titled, as Boxcar's idea of the one true religion only makes the average Joe desire to go to Hell to avoid further contact with him.

That's what I desired too, at the start of this thread. But then I realized that Boxcar would be in Hell, as well. And, with my luck...his cell would be right next to mine.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

That's what I desired too, at the start of this thread. But then I realized that Boxcar would be in Hell, as well. And, with my luck...his cell would be right next to mine.

Boxcar is never going to change, so why do you bother Gus?...You just give more life to the thread by continuing to post in it, just let it die already...

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Boxcar is never going to change, so why do you bother Gus?...You just give more life to the thread by continuing to post in it, just let it die already...

I will die before this thread does.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I will die before this thread does.

Here's the deal, God has already seen you take on the role as a Mod at PA, thus you're going through the Pearly Gates for sure, no doubt...

[hcap]

Originally Posted by Actor

So. what?

All your Bible-based premises are not Buddhist.

Nor rational

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I'll do better with a couple of sentences instead: Light's two Buddha-based premises are not biblical.

Short enough, fer ya?

Got news for you, "kenosis" is a word that is similar to the zen Buddhist/Taoist concept of the void, or emptiness.

Emptiness (Wu) points to an inner realization or state of mind characterized by simplicity, and stillness. One's ego is turned down in order to experience satori or the divine awakening.

However all your pages and pages full of word games, only confuses this elusive concept. Stay on point.

What comes to mind is the Yiddish phrase, hock mir nicht kein chinik, (or tscheynik) literally means don't bang my tea kettle. Or to rattle on loudly and insistently, but without much meaning.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Got news for you, "kenosis" is a word that is similar to the zen Buddhist/Taoist concept of the void, or emptiness.

Emptiness (Wu) points to an inner realization or state of mind characterized by simplicity, and stillness. One's ego is turned down in order to experience satori or the divine awakening.

However all your pages and pages full of word games, only confuses this elusive concept. Stay on point.

What comes to mind is the Yiddish phrase, hock mir nicht kein chinik, (or tscheynik) literally means don't bang my tea kettle. Or to rattle on loudly and insistently, but without much meaning.

"Void or emptiness", you say? Like all that space between your ears? No wonder you're in love with Big Bud.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I will die before this thread does.

Not according to Hcap. This is the good news. But the bad is that all his predictions of thread death have come up err...empty and void. This result itself being quite predictable in his case.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If we posted a poll question, asking the readers here to either side with Boxcar or Light in the "true Christianity" debate...I wonder what the final tally would be. My guess is that Boxcar would only receive his own vote.

This is precisely why the path is so broad and many are those who travel upon it and the gate so wide that leads to destruction -- and many are those who enter by it.

Hint: Big Bud didn't say this.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Nor rational

Assuredly, not to the irrational...

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

That's what I desired too, at the start of this thread. But then I realized that Boxcar would be in Hell, as well. And, with my luck...his cell would be right next to mine.

Could be worse, you know? We could end up as cellmates, if it weren't for God's faithfulness, that is.