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Old 10-01-2020, 01:52 PM   #76
Nitro
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Thanks for the rant and the lecture. Gosh, who knew that there were no honest businessmen in racing and that the only way to save things was to turn to the only people who always act in the best interest of everybody, the US Government.
You’re quite welcome! I’m just curious as to how you interpreted my previous comments to suggest that there were “no honest businessmen” in the horse racing industry. I’m sure there are many who sympathize with Gasper Moschera’s earlier commentary and share the same sort of integrity. As I implied these same business men could make serious changes in the best interest of the game on their own.
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Old 10-01-2020, 02:19 PM   #77
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You’re quite welcome! I’m just curious as to how you interpreted my previous comments to suggest that there were “no honest businessmen” in the horse racing industry. I’m sure there are many who sympathize with Gasper Moschera’s earlier commentary and share the same sort of integrity. As I implied these same business men could make serious changes in the best interest of the game on their own.
And did not. Horse racing could have and should have done something like this on their own. But did not. This did not need to happen, but it was forced to happen, because of the sports unwillingness to do the same thing on their own.
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Old 10-01-2020, 03:47 PM   #78
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Am I missing something? Did the state governments disband their horse racing oversight?
In Ohio the oversight is 2 drunken Fat guys sneaking around the stables eating free sandwiches with the trainers.

At least it was in the 90’s
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Old 10-01-2020, 04:44 PM   #79
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In Ohio the oversight is 2 drunken Fat guys sneaking around the stables eating free sandwiches with the trainers.

At least it was in the 90’s
In California, the regulators conspired to cover up the doping of a Santa Anita Derby winner.

These aren't the people who will clean up the sport.
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Old 10-01-2020, 04:47 PM   #80
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Certainly not helpful to your point of view. We don't know how the private sector would do versus the government managing SS, EPA, Medicare,etc.

Horse racing doesn't regulate itself, it is regulated by the states. There is no national issue that requires Federal oversight. I am anti-federal government for local issues. There is no national need to have racing rules be the same in California and Florida. You may not like the inconsistencies but inconsistencies between states exists for many things on many levels.
I will stay out of the political issues raised by the rest of your post, but your last point is just amazingly not true.

Horse racing is now simulcast across state lines, generating much of the sport's handles.

If you would like to turn back the clock to 1978 when there was almost no interstate betting on horse racing, and then tell me it's a local issue, fine, you'd have an argument. But right now, for instance, the California Horse Racing Board's decisions to protect Bob Baffert harm people in New York and Florida and Illinois and any other state where they are betting our races. That is not a local issue. That's a federal issue.
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Old 10-01-2020, 05:31 PM   #81
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I will stay out of the political issues raised by the rest of your post, but your last point is just amazingly not true.

Horse racing is now simulcast across state lines, generating much of the sport's handles.

If you would like to turn back the clock to 1978 when there was almost no interstate betting on horse racing, and then tell me it's a local issue, fine, you'd have an argument. But right now, for instance, the California Horse Racing Board's decisions to protect Bob Baffert harm people in New York and Florida and Illinois and any other state where they are betting our races. That is not a local issue. That's a federal issue.
The fact that there is interstate betting allows the Feds to regulate betting. It's not a doorway to put their fingers on a business and override state regulations.

Your entire argument is based on your belief that all state horse racing regulators are corrupt. Does that belief also extend to all other state agencies?
Surely you, as attorney, can prove your case in court about the conspiracy to protect Baffert and harm the bettors of the US.
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Old 10-01-2020, 05:41 PM   #82
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You’re quite welcome! I’m just curious as to how you interpreted my previous comments to suggest that there were “no honest businessmen” in the horse racing industry. I’m sure there are many who sympathize with Gasper Moschera’s earlier commentary and share the same sort of integrity. As I implied these same business men could make serious changes in the best interest of the game on their own.
With all of the enraged bettors and honest businessmen crying out for change why hasn't just 1 state made a move? Surely they would want all of the handle that would come their way for such a change.
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Old 10-01-2020, 05:45 PM   #83
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And did not. Horse racing could have and should have done something like this on their own. But did not. This did not need to happen, but it was forced to happen, because of the sports unwillingness to do the same thing on their own.
Players could change things tomorrow by stopping betting.
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:47 PM   #84
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With all of the enraged bettors and honest businessmen crying out for change why hasn't just 1 state made a move? Surely they would want all of the handle that would come their way for such a change.
Possibly because the groups you’ve mentioned are not properly organized. Without that solidarity they can be easily manipulated and completely ignored by any state wide group in authority at any level. It’s very difficult to convince those in authority to make any positive changes when the sporadic recommendations are coming from splintered and disorganized groups.

I personally think it would be a great start for officials in any particular state to successfully work in conjunction with the local track owners and horsemen there to achieve some positive common goals. This could be done by regulating their game properly and ignoring the existing status quo in other states. I believe that by making some easily recognizable innovations they could certainly realize a bountiful return in the long run.
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Old 10-02-2020, 11:09 AM   #85
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The fact that there is interstate betting allows the Feds to regulate betting. It's not a doorway to put their fingers on a business and override state regulations.

Your entire argument is based on your belief that all state horse racing regulators are corrupt. Does that belief also extend to all other state agencies?
Surely you, as attorney, can prove your case in court about the conspiracy to protect Baffert and harm the bettors of the US.
There isn't a hermetic seal between betting and cheating, Andy. The notion that our horse racing board could allow a race like the Santa Anita Derby to be fixed, harming bettors at Aqueduct who bet on it, and you think the federal government should do nothing about it is pure political ideology. You are basically saying you don't give a darn about protecting the sport.
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Old 10-02-2020, 12:05 PM   #86
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There isn't a hermetic seal between betting and cheating, Andy. The notion that our horse racing board could allow a race like the Santa Anita Derby to be fixed, harming bettors at Aqueduct who bet on it, and you think the federal government should do nothing about it is pure political ideology. You are basically saying you don't give a darn about protecting the sport.
I don't accept your "facts" about the CHRB allowing cheating.
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Old 10-02-2020, 12:10 PM   #87
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Possibly because the groups you’ve mentioned are not properly organized. Without that solidarity they can be easily manipulated and completely ignored by any state wide group in authority at any level. It’s very difficult to convince those in authority to make any positive changes when the sporadic recommendations are coming from splintered and disorganized groups.

I personally think it would be a great start for officials in any particular state to successfully work in conjunction with the local track owners and horsemen there to achieve some positive common goals. This could be done by regulating their game properly and ignoring the existing status quo in other states. I believe that by making some easily recognizable innovations they could certainly realize a bountiful return in the long run.
On the above we agree!

The ultimate consumer, the bettor, is sending a mixed message when they continue to buy the product.
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Old 10-02-2020, 02:07 PM   #88
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On the above we agree!

The ultimate consumer, the bettor, is sending a mixed message when they continue to buy the product.
Except they're not, are they? Handle in 2019 was $11 billion; in 2003 (the peak) it was $15.1 billion. Considering how much less that money is worth than it was 20 years ago, gamblers have clearly rejected the current form of horse racing. Now, I don't personally believe that's because of Lasix or illegal drugs (there were rumors of cheating and fixed races from the first time two things raced each other) but because there are much better financial options. But to me, the message is pretty clear.
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Old 10-02-2020, 02:58 PM   #89
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Except they're not, are they? Handle in 2019 was $11 billion; in 2003 (the peak) it was $15.1 billion. Considering how much less that money is worth than it was 20 years ago, gamblers have clearly rejected the current form of horse racing. Now, I don't personally believe that's because of Lasix or illegal drugs (there were rumors of cheating and fixed races from the first time two things raced each other) but because there are much better financial options. But to me, the message is pretty clear.
I agree with your analysis. I would also say that there is no pent up demand to bet US racing if only it was run cleanly.
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Old 10-02-2020, 03:35 PM   #90
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I don't accept your "facts" about the CHRB allowing cheating.
You can not accept gravity while you are at it. It was perfectly clear the CHRB covered up Justify's positive test.
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