DQ or no DQ you be the judge

[Tommy Tom]

Originally Posted by Mineshaft

I know one thing Mike Smith is one pissed off dude.

got taken wide by Victor in the Awesome Again and now today. I would not want to be on the side of Mike in the near future for fear of him hitting someone with his whip. Dude is pissed off..

But did Mike Smith or Javier or any jockey lodge an OBJECTION? in addition to the stewards inquiry?

I watched the race on my NYRewards wagering account with the sound off so I do not know if the jockey's themselves lodged an objection.

All I do know is I was alive in the pk 3 and I needed Chrome to win so yeah I was hoping they would have taken them both down and moved up Chrome for the win.....but sweet dream is all that was and quite frankly CC did not deserve the win.

But no sour grapes from me as Chrome had the perfect position to pass the top two in the stretch and the fact is he didn't....

But late last evening I was reading some jockey comments on how they feel their horses getting crushed lost all chances in the race and that is what makes me ask did any jockey's officially OBJECT?

I would think if the jockey's objected the stewards decision would have possibly have a different outcome...

Which jockey's in the race lodged an Objection?

[NY BRED]

.

Bob Baffert interview after the race:

1:first jump out of the gate you can't control, 'they"(stewards)
usually allow(blink). Bayern was wiped out in the Preakness,
(so this is payback?).Anyone knowledgeable about this
rule?

2 I told Martin ,WHATEVER YOU DO, go to the Lead and
DON"T LOOK BACK.(in other words, don't appear guilty),ie
throw the gun away after the hit.

3.Don't like when they take so long to review a race.
(I bring a lot of money to this State)


Realistically, if SB or Moreno and/ or the jocks were injured, do you
believe the result stays? Secondly, if this is the 'general" rule,
you just created an arena for collusion and scams at
major and minor tracks.


Typically stewards forgive bumping incidents with Maidens , which clearly
is not justified in a Grade I race . Mike Smith clearly stated SB was severely
impacted after the break, but what the heck, Mr. B is a prominent trainer,
so lets continue the show, and screw horse of the year award for
Shared Belief.

[Mineshaft]

The break reminded me of the break of the KY Derby when everyone is in a rush to get over and get position. It was like the KY Derby all over again but with less horses.

And there will be one KY derby when a horse falls coming out the break and jock gets tossed or hell maybe even 2 horses go down. Then what? Do they stop the race to take of the horse and jocks? The there would be no Derby if that happened.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by Valento

This is not a debatable topic. Bayern eliminated 3 or 4 runners from the race at a critical point in the race (when early position was established). It was illegal and changed the outcome of the race. DQ.

Anything other than that is white noise.

I agree 100% with you but have yet to hear anything about a rule in place that actually backs up either side of the argument.

I also disagree with the general thought that because a race is "a big one"(Triple Crown, BC, etc) there should be less of a likelihood a horse will be taken down. Seems like in races with so much money on the line and so much prestige, the rules should be even more in place and enforced to ensure a fair result.

[MutuelClerk]

Baffert has always struck me as some sort of west coast mafia don. After watching the Awesome Again and yesterdays start of the Classic. Nothing has changed. He owns California.

[Tommy Tom]

"I think it cost me the race," Hall of Fame jockey Mike Smith said of the early tangle. "I was never able to get comfortable after getting hit at the break."

"The nine horse, Toast of New York, probably came over and did more damage 100 yards out of the gate," Baffert said. "The nine was doing more crushing back there than we did."

http://www.nola.com/sports/index.ssf...yern_wins.html

__

I wished they would have DQ both of them and moved CC to the top so I could have cashed in on my Pk 3 ticket

I just feel bad that CC had every chance to pass the two leaders in the stretch but he did not have it in him to do so yesterday...No excuse for his loss but I sure as heck would not complain about nailing the huge pk 3 due to two disqualifications

[Mineshaft]

Originally Posted by Tommy Tom

"I think it cost me the race," Hall of Fame jockey Mike Smith said of the early tangle. "I was never able to get comfortable after getting hit at the break."

"The nine horse, Toast of New York, probably came over and did more damage 100 yards out of the gate," Baffert said. "The nine was doing more crushing back there than we did."

http://www.nola.com/sports/index.ssf...yern_wins.html

__

I wished they would have DQ both of them and moved CC to the top so I could have cashed in on my Pk 3 ticket

I just feel bad that CC had every chance to pass the two leaders in the stretch but he did not have it in him to do so yesterday...No excuse for his loss but I sure as heck would not complain about nailing the huge pk 3 due to two disqualifications

will pay to the 13?

[Tommy Tom]

Originally Posted by Mineshaft

will pay to the 13?

$2k for 50 cents

[Mineshaft]

Originally Posted by Tommy Tom

$2k for 50 cents

that was a sweet payoff

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by Relwob Owner

I agree 100% with you but have yet to hear anything about a rule in place that actually backs up either side of the argument.

Let's walk this backward logically.

1. Can (and do) the stewards DQ horses for actions immediately out of the gate? The answer is YES. Not my answer, the stewards answer. How do I know this? The sheer fact that they posted an inquiry is admission that events that occurred early in the race can warrant a DQ.
2. Did Bayern commit action that can be seen as DQ-worthy? YES. Again, the stewards indicated that "...Bayern took a sharp left and did impede horses". No one is disputing that he did that. We can all see. We went through 2nd grade. We don't need it to be interpreted. It happened and Bayern caused it to happen.
3. Once an illegal, DQ worthy event happens, does it matter who did what afterwards? NO. How can stewards or anyone for that matter, say with a straight face that they know how something that happened early in the race (and, in my opinion, at least in this race, at the most important time of the race, position establishment) had no bearing on the outcome. If anything, the exact opposite is true.

This whole thing is illogical and criminal. Bob Baffert has influence there and I believe it is the reason his horse wasn't DQ'd. I was sitting with Steve Davidowitz and he thought the DQ should have happened but felt it wasn't the Baffert effect but sheer incompetence. I disagree. Incompetence is not seeing the illegal action. This was a willing decision. Why the decision was made is open to interpretation. You know what my interpretation is.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by Valento

Let's walk this backward logically.

1. Can (and do) the stewards DQ horses for actions immediately out of the gate? The answer is YES. Not my answer, the stewards answer. How do I know this? The sheer fact that they posted an inquiry is admission that events that occurred early in the race can warrant a DQ.
2. Did Bayern commit action that can be seen as DQ-worthy? YES. Again, the stewards indicated that "...Bayern took a sharp left and did impede horses". No one is disputing that he did that. We can all see. We went through 2nd grade. We don't need it to be interpreted. It happened and Bayern caused it to happen.
3. Once an illegal, DQ worthy event happens, does it matter who did what afterwards? NO. How can stewards or anyone for that matter, say with a straight face that they know how something that happened early in the race (and, in my opinion, at least in this race, at the most important time of the race, position establishment) had no bearing on the outcome. If anything, the exact opposite is true.

This whole thing is illogical and criminal. Bob Baffert has influence there and I believe it is the reason his horse wasn't DQ'd. I was sitting with Steve Davidowitz and he thought the DQ should have happened but felt it wasn't the Baffert effect but sheer incompetence. I disagree. Incompetence is not seeing the illegal action. This was a willing decision. Why the decision was made is open to interpretation. You know what my interpretation is.

There have been many posts on here but that is by far the best and thanks for the info. My interpretation is the same. Between this and the enforcement of trainer violations, it sometimes makes me wonder why I put up with this game.

[The WindfallAngler]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

Had to be DQd. I didn't even think it would be a question, and then you see the inquiry lifted and no change of order.

I don't know what argument anybody can make to not DQ Bayern. A gutless decision.

Works for me.

[Mr_Ed]

Originally Posted by The WindfallAngler

Works for me.

Yup. This was MUCH MORE than the typical Mr Ed Friday night bump 'n grind.

[Stillriledup]

Here's what i have a problem with.

There are mostly 2 things a jockey could be thinking as he's entering the gate. One thing is that i have a specific plan on what i want to do when the gates open and the other thing is i have no real plan i'm just going to get out of there in 1 piece and see where the wind takes me.

If you have the "Wind takes me" theory of riding, and you come out of the gate crooked, its 50/50 to which way your horse is going to veer. Its a coin flip because you dont have a plan, and you can't predict sometimes where 1,000+ pound kegs of dynamite are going to veer once that gate opens, so its really random as to which way you're going to veer, if you do happen to veer.

BUT, if you have a specific plan to get the lead and get over to the rail, the veering you do isn't random, it wasn't sheer coincidence that Bayern drifted inward and not outward, his jock had a specific plan and part of the plan was to get the lead and get over to the rail and get around Moreno as soon as you can, so his veering in and crashing was just a miscalculation on his part.

Now, if you want to give leeway to accidental gate mishaps that's one thing, but when you start giving the same leeway to a jock who had intent to get over to the rail and he miscalculates his distance between his rivals, i don't know if that deserves to have the same "leeway" attached to it.

[The WindfallAngler]

Originally Posted by ultracapper

I thought Garcia made an effort to correct. He got up in the stirrups and was tugging hard on the right rein. I thought he was doing it as much for his personal safety as anything. HE could have gotten badly hurt if he wouldn't have corrected it in the time he did. We all worry about Smith's safety and SB's safety, but Garcia was definitely in a precarious spot himself.

I don't believe that there was any premeditation on Garcia's part to bear in like that, and kind of reluctantly, I agree there shouldn't have been any DQ. I know it affected the way the race was run, and ultimately probably finishing positions, but, like one poster said already, you can't assume Moreno, or any other horse, was going to compete on the engine with Bayern. Sure, that's Moreno's running style, but you can't assume he lost his chance to get the lead because of that. He may not have been able to get it anyway, or the connections may have decided that this was the day to sit off the front runner. You can't just assume that the start was the reason SB didn't fire either. This may have been the day, even if everything went perfect, that SB came up flat.

I did not bet the race. Except for the first 30 yards, I thought it was a great race. Was disappointed CC did not take advantage of his position at the 1/8th pole and get over the top. As he leveled out and it became apparent he wouldn't get by, I heard any chance of him winning HOY flush down the toilet.

To the contrary. Chrome's close third may be good enough for HoY honors, on balance [and in view of his two prior starts (which were unambiguous lineouts)].

To some extent, my sympathies are with the backers, and connections of Shared Belief. Who lost all chance (but who can't be crowned deserving in absentia ).

The one colt you CAN't elevate to HoY ...is Bayern ...who MAY even be best, but is plainly no victor, not after these spoils.