Philly Park Surges Past Aqueduct

[samyn on the green]

Philly Park Purse Surge

$5 for a large pizza, $1.20 for a pack of smokes and less than $500 a month for a nice one bedroom. The numbers are my fondest memories of my time in Philadelphia. Cheap living in an honest working class city. At that time the racing world had an even larger chasm between New York and Philly. Philly Park was barely holding on at the bottom of the racing class ladder while NYRA was the king of the new world. Ten years later and it looks like the roles have reversed. In a huge coup that nobody has even noticed New York is now the backwater with Philly presenting the better purses and potentially the better product.

Purse Comparison

Condition Philly park purse Aqueduct purse
Maiden 12K $22K $19K
MSW 1 Mile $44K $44K
CLM 7.5K $22K $16
CLM 25K $36K $24K
CLM35K $39 $38
STK $75K $65K

[the_fat_man]

I don't know where you're coming from, BRO,

but the NYRA supporters (which, not coincidently, are also the DRFites, and thus the BEYERites, you know, the connoisseurs of FAST horses ) would have you know that NYRA racing (and this, thus, includes, AQU) is the best there is. Hands down, the BEST DIRT RACING in the country.

What a bunch of CLOWNS.

[rrbauer]

Yeah, but wait until they get slots at the Big A. (Real soon now!)

Once they pay down what they owe everyone and dig NYC OTB out of the crapper they will have money to ???burn???

[tzipi]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I don't know where you're coming from, BRO,

but the NYRA supporters (which, not coincidently, are also the DRFites, and thus the BEYERites, you know, the connoisseurs of FAST horses ) would have you know that NYRA racing (and this, thus, includes, AQU) is the best there is. Hands down, the BEST DIRT RACING in the country.

What a bunch of CLOWNS.

I agree,it is far from best dirt racing in the winter. Would be nice to get that place back to what it used to be. The place is just rundown and no one goes there. Shame.

The company coming in wants the land and track for a casino. They don't want the failing horses. Alot of racinos don't. Slot players are not going to all of a sudden start spending their money on horses IMO. As stated before by insiders,racinos will try and discontinue the failing horse tracks and expand their MONEYMAKING casinos.

[cj]

Well, isn't it obvious the purses are up because of slots money? Even Ray Charles can see that. Surely these purses at Philly aren't driven by increased handle.

I'm not saying that Philly might not offer a better product some day. They already do at certain levels which is why New York is struggling. There are pretty much no decent claimers left in New York on dirt. This has been going on for years. Why do you think there are now turf sprints and so many NY bred races? They do what they must to fill races.

What happens when New York gets slots if they ever actually get them up and running? Don't you think the purse situation will change?

At the top levels, NYRA still is the best dirt racing, but they suffer at the cheaper levels. There is no doubt about it. It is the slot money. What this has to do with DRF or Beyer I have no idea. TFM never misses a chance to swoop in and redirect to his favorite targets, DRF, NYRA, and Beyer in no particular order.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by cj

TFM never misses a chance to swoop in and redirect to his favorite targets, DRF, NYRA, and Beyer in no particular order.

These are all related. BEYER is against POLY. NYRA is against using their turf courses. Their racing secretary is against variety in the terms of distance. Together, they've managed to **** UP what once was the best place for racing in, arguably, the world.

I couldn't help thinking, when I was looking over what was a loaded field for last week's Hollywood Derby, that these type of races were TYPICAL for BEL in the summer (let alone SAR). WTF has happened to racing in NY in the past few years? They go out of their way to take races off the turf. Which means that, after a while, connections get tired of this shit and look elsewhere. NYRA figures this is 1980, and there are no better options for them, while in fact there are MANY options, other than just lumping it. So NYRA proceeds as if they're still the only game in town, rather than adapting. WTF are we saving the turf courses for?

NYRA is banking on all the NYRA/DRF/BEYER DIEHARD MISFITS over at Derby Trail keeping them going in terms of revenue. Now, that's funny shit.

All I can say is THANK GOD FOR WOODBINE. At least there's ONE TRACK around that actually does things right.

[Valuist]

Doesn't Woodbine have among the highest takeout in North America? I know I've heard their management has tried rationalizing it but there is none.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Doesn't Woodbine have among the highest takeout in North America? I know I've heard their management has tried rationalizing it but there is none.

It is a sad correlation. What you find is tracks that have slots tend to have the highest takeouts. Woodbine, Philly, Penn have takeouts of 27,30, and 31 respectively for triactors.

Keeneland has the lowest takeouts in North America, and they don't have slots.

[Doc]

Just remember, the politicians in Pa. have stuck their hands in the slots money cookie jar. Over the next couple of years, they will be siphoning off slots revenue to balance the budget, which will affect purses and the breeding fund. They might even take more money, depending on how much they need. Lots of lawmakers don't feel that horse racing should be subsidized so heavily. Maybe Philly's winter product this year might be a tad better than Aqueduct's, but doubt it will ever surpass NYRA in any other season. Besides, it's bush-league in just about every way.

[therussmeister]

Originally Posted by Valuist

Doesn't Woodbine have among the highest takeout in North America? I know I've heard their management has tried rationalizing it but there is none.

I believe in Canada there is a Federal parimutual tax along with a Provincial tax, and that is why they are so high. Compensated, for Canadians, by no income tax on gambling winnings.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by Doc

Just remember, the politicians in Pa. have stuck their hands in the slots money cookie jar. Over the next couple of years, they will be siphoning off slots revenue to balance the budget, which will affect purses and the breeding fund. They might even take more money, depending on how much they need. Lots of lawmakers don't feel that horse racing should be subsidized so heavily. Maybe Philly's winter product this year might be a tad better than Aqueduct's, but doubt it will ever surpass NYRA in any other season. Besides, it's bush-league in just about every way.

Doc you are the best! How about the fact that table games arrive in April and the purses may see another increase(not a guarantee). The new casino opens in a few days and PP is banking on larger crowds and more handle. Right now PP is in a perfect spot they can pretty much put some distance between them and NJ and NY by luring in better trainers and horses, at least for the time NJ is not racing thoroughbreds and NY is racing at Aqueduct. I only see positives for PP in the near future and hopefully you will see that also.

[JohnGalt1]

Originally Posted by therussmeister

I believe in Canada there is a Federal parimutual tax along with a Provincial tax, and that is why they are so high. Compensated, for Canadians, by no income tax on gambling winnings.

I wish the U.S. would do this.

No W-2Gs, no keeping a log for tax purposes, no saving losing mutual tickets.

And a percentage each dollar bet is already taxed up front.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Doc you are the best! How about the fact that table games arrive in April and the purses may see another increase(not a guarantee). The new casino opens in a few days and PP is banking on larger crowds and more handle. Right now PP is in a perfect spot they can pretty much put some distance between them and NJ and NY by luring in better trainers and horses, at least for the time NJ is not racing thoroughbreds and NY is racing at Aqueduct. I only see positives for PP in the near future and hopefully you will see that also.

The horse racing industry will get ZERO from table games. All table games will do is siphon off money from slots. Stroll into Mike Ballezzi's office and ask him.

This is widely available information; Google "Pennsylvania table games" and you will get a lot of information.

[lamboguy]

Originally Posted by cj

Well, isn't it obvious the purses are up because of slots money? Even Ray Charles can see that. Surely these purses at Philly aren't driven by increased handle.

I'm not saying that Philly might not offer a better product some day. They already do at certain levels which is why New York is struggling. There are pretty much no decent claimers left in New York on dirt. This has been going on for years. Why do you think there are now turf sprints and so many NY bred races? They do what they must to fill races.

What happens when New York gets slots if they ever actually get them up and running? Don't you think the purse situation will change?

At the top levels, NYRA still is the best dirt racing, but they suffer at the cheaper levels. There is no doubt about it. It is the slot money. What this has to do with DRF or Beyer I have no idea. TFM never misses a chance to swoop in and redirect to his favorite targets, DRF, NYRA, and Beyer in no particular order.

a maiden $40k in Philly is tougher than the same as in new york. the way that the races are structured at Philly due to nw2 starters the maiden $25k comes up tougher than the maiden $40k occasionaly. the new york conditioned tag races this time of year are real weak. years ago there was no such thing as a condition claiming race in new york.. i still think that the GULFSRTEAM races are still going to be better than PHILLY, florida is selling weather this time of the year, Philly might have the slots but they certainly don't have the weather!

[Tom]

Anyone know the name of TFM's book?
He must have at lest one in print, I mean, the guy is a friggin' genius....puts Andy to shame.

Just ask him.

Talk about clowns! It would hard to fill HIS shoes!