Last race at Turfway

[comet52]

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I'm curious if you think this race would require a photo. Battaglia said it twice. But no photo was posted and the 8 was put up within a few seconds of the finish.

I've been trying to get Turfway to show me a photo and the story I'm being told is worthy of a professional raconteur.

And yes I had a wager on the

[cj]

I'd love to hear the story, because obviously a photo is warranted in that race.

[FrankieFigs]

That needed a photo. Wow....

[comet52]

Originally Posted by cj

I'd love to hear the story, because obviously a photo is warranted in that race.

At first I was impressed that their communications person replied quickly. She said I should look at their youtube video site in a day or two, that if a win photo was needed it would be part of that. Which could just be a way of blowing me off but when it was posted with no such photo I wrote again. I was told she'd look into it. After hearing nothing for a couple days I wrote again and this is what I was told:

The person who runs our teletimer (Jeff) and the placing judges are no longer here because our live racing season is over. I'm trying to track down a phone number for Jeff or a judge. I've already called the chief steward and left a voice mail, asking if the stewards called for a photo.

I did check with the video department, who puts together the Turfway Park Report. Because Mike Battaglia didn't reference a photo finish in his recap, the video editor didn't call for a photo from teletimer.

I don't know where Jeff works when he isn't here. The racing officials travel from track to track as meets open and close, sometimes within Kentucky and sometimes to other jurisdictions. If he hasn't moved too far away, he may be able to stop by here to access his equipment here, which is now shut down for the season.

I appreciate her effort assuming it's not just an effort to blow me off.

Now I don't doubt that people left since the season ended but isn't a photo something that would just be on a computer somewhere? Do they discard them? It sounds like one of those fish stories that gets bigger over time. We'll have to exhume the body of the racing secretary who died the day after the race and see if he had a combination lock on a scrap of paper in his coat pocket that opens the vault where we keep all the photos.

This should be a simple thing and it should have been provided. While the angle on the video is not straight on line, it's extremely close. I'd accept that the lost if I could at least see a picture.

[jballscalls]

I just went to the source and called my friend who is one of the placing judges at Turfway.

When i watched the replay on Twinspires...the horse crossed the wire at 1:28 into the replay and the results were posted at 2:15....so 47 seconds from when they hit the wire to when they posted the results.

My friend told me that the time from when they cross the wire to when they decide the results of the photo is sometimes literally a couple of seconds. It's all on computer, not on film like the old days. So she said essentially they hit two or three buttons to get the program back to the finish point picture and make their decision from looking at the computer. If it's obscenely close it takes a while, but anything more than half a nose you can tell in a couple of seconds. The placing judges at Turfway are in the office next to the stewards and there's a window to the stews room, so essentially they're in the same room so it's a very fast process.

As far as why the photo sign wasn't posted, she said we'd have to ask the stewards. She did say that sometimes the photo or dead-heat buttons do stick and will either not go on or stay on even after results are posted. The machine that does it at Portland Meadows looks like it's old but I don't know about the one at Turfway.

But clearly the photo sign should have been posted as it was clearly a photo. I told my friend next time she goes to Turfway to take a picture of the picture for me to see.

Jeff is the main guy, and my friend is the other photo finish person there.

[comet52]

I assumed it's all on computer JBalls which is why I assumed it wouldn't be a problem to just produce it. It's like that Oaklawn finish a few months ago that people were complaining about. These tracks should just make it a habit to provide the basic info that determines whether their customer's hard earned money is won or lost, rather than providing p.r. that says "trust us."

[jballscalls]

Originally Posted by comet52

I assumed it's all on computer JBalls which is why I assumed it wouldn't be a problem to just produce it. It's like that Oaklawn finish a few months ago that people were complaining about. These tracks should just make it a habit to provide the basic info that determines whether their customer's hard earned money is won or lost, rather than providing p.r. that says "trust us."

I completely agree and I hope my post didn't indicate that was my view. I was just trying to explain how it works and the process.

It will take Jeff or Quita (yes that's her name to go up and look it up, and since both live 30 or 40 minutes from Turfway I'll doubt it'll happen anytime soon. Unless of course they take the same computer to River where they also do it, then they can look it up. I'll ask.

[FantasticDan]

Watched the replay on the Horse Races Now app, there's 4:12 worth of video, with the horses crossing the wire at 1:28 as jballscalls said, then Battaglia announcing the "results of the photo" at 2:24.

They did a close-up slo-mo of the horses crossing the wire, which I hoped to get a screen-shot of, but it's useless because the horses heads are not within the shot as they cross the wire.

The replay ends at 4:12 as the gets his picture taken and the race goes official.

[jballscalls]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan

Watched the replay on the Horse Races Now app, there's 4:12 worth of video, with the horses crossing the wire at 1:28 as jballscalls said, then Battaglia announcing the "results of the photo" at 2:24.

They did a close-up slo-mo of the horses crossing the wire, which I hoped to get a screen-shot of, but it's useless because the horses heads are not within the shot as they cross the wire.

The replay ends at 4:12 as the gets his picture taken and the race goes official.

most places will show the photos on tv screen after official results posted, prices etc... replay sites never show that much though so we'd have had to watch it live.

[comet52]

Originally Posted by jballscalls

most places will show the photos on tv screen after official results posted, prices etc... replay sites never show that much though so we'd have had to watch it live.

I watched live and let it run but after several minutes it was just dead air. No photo was ever posted.

[jballscalls]

Originally Posted by comet52

I watched live and let it run but after several minutes it was just dead air. No photo was ever posted.

gotcha. well I got a message into Jeff. I'll see what he says.

[Milkshaker]

Sad but true: Last race of the meet is often officials just wanting to get the F*** outta there.

That means departure from proper protocol(s) with little oversight. No one cares whether Joe Public sees the damn photo.

At many tracks, the timing/photo system is leased. I'm guessing this might be the case at TP. If this is the case, workers from the timing company (or often the timer himself) are already breaking down and packing the equipment so it can go on to its next destination as soon as the last horse crosses the wire.

My guess is there was indeed a digitized "photo" that the placing judges looked at, but that it was not passed on to track officials or "saved" by others (ie TV control). The hard drive with the photo on it exists, but is already on to its next destination or stored away by the timing company.

[jballscalls]

Originally Posted by Milkshaker

Sad but true: Last race of the meet is often officials just wanting to get the F*** outta there.

That means departure from proper protocol(s) with little oversight. No one cares whether Joe Public sees the damn photo.

At many tracks, the timing/photo system is leased. I'm guessing this might be the case at TP. If this is the case, workers from the timing company (or often the timer himself) are already breaking down and packing the equipment so it can go on to its next destination as soon as the last horse crosses the wire.

My guess is there was indeed a digitized "photo" that the placing judges looked at, but that it was not passed on to track officials or "saved" by others (ie TV control). The hard drive with the photo on it exists, but is already on to its next destination or stored away by the timing company.

I've got a call in to Jeff, hopefully he'll return it and I can get all the answers you guys want!

Your example made me chuckle because I don't think I've ever been to any business anywhere where people weren't packing up or excited to have time off/vacation. Restaurants an hour before closing time, stores that see you walk in 5 minutes before closing, school teachers the last day of class before summer break, I mean I could go on and on forever on that one. I go to our radio station to cut commercials at 2pm on any friday and it's a ghost town, salesman all on the golf course!

Not excusing it if that's the case, just see it everyday in every business.

[Milkshaker]

Originally Posted by jballscalls

Your example made me chuckle because I don't think I've ever been to any business anywhere where people weren't packing up or excited to have time off/vacation...I mean I could go on and on forever on that one...Not excusing it if that's the case, just see it everyday in every business.

I respectfully see your point, but you raise an issue that is a larger industry-wide problem with this line of reasoning: The racing industry desperately wants customers to believe that it has integrity and follows proper wagering safeguards and protocols. But when it slips up, it wants to be able to claim, "Hey--It was the last race! We're just like everybody else! We just wanted to get outta there!"

When I make a transaction at my bank at five minutes to closing time, they don't blow off giving me a receipt just because happy hour is around the corner. When I place stock trades, I expect them to be executed the same, with the proper protocols and safeguards in place, regardless of the time of day I place them.

Not showing the photo, not posting the photo sign, not making it available to TV feeds, and not having a good answer for the original poster when he asked the track about it are all examples of ineptitude backed by a lack of integrity.

If the rule is to always post the photo, then always post the damn photo.

[jballscalls]

Originally Posted by Milkshaker

I respectfully see your point, but you raise an issue that is a larger industry-wide problem with this line of reasoning: The racing industry desperately wants customers to believe that it has integrity and follows proper wagering safeguards and protocols. But when it slips up, it wants to be able to claim, "Hey--It was the last race! We're just like everybody else! We just wanted to get outta there!"

When I make a transaction at my bank at five minutes to closing time, they don't blow off giving me a receipt just because happy hour is around the corner. When I place stock trades, I expect them to be executed the same, with the proper protocols and safeguards in place, regardless of the time of day I place them.

Not showing the photo, not posting the photo sign, not making it available to TV feeds, and not having a good answer for the original poster when he asked the track about it are all examples of ineptitude backed by a lack of integrity.

If the rule is to always post the photo, then always post the damn photo.

We're not disagreeing at all on what should have been done. Your bank is better than mine. The look I get from the teller who wants to close out their till at 4:58 is not a pleasant one LOL

the term "the industry" drives me nuts in these conversations. Because each track is such a different entity. I know me personally, I can only control my one job at my one track. And it's frustrating when you're lumped in as "the industry" when someone at another track screws up.