Horse entered for lower claiming price, for lowered carried weight?

[cutchemist42]

Unless you know how the trainer has done in these situations, how do you view this type of move?

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by cutchemist42

Unless you know how the trainer has done in these situations, how do you view this type of move?

You can scan a number of race charts to decide if this is good or not. BTW, I don't think it's very good from a bettors standpoint. Do you think a trainer is willing to lose his horse for a couple of pounds if he really felt the horse was worth that claiming price?

Now getting a reduction in weight from using an apprentice is a different question (IMO). Again, you can scan previous racing charts to come to your own conclusion.

[gillenr]

Not totally relevant, but I've seen a trainer take the lower weight......
.....and put a rider up who can't make the weight!

[jballscalls]

One thing I remember from working in the race office....trainers love to save on weight if they can! I was actually surprised how important it was to them.

[turninforhome10]

On the other side of the coin, even the most extreme price difference will be 5k. If you will take the horse for 20k you probably would take the horse for 25k. "But we are saving 5k on the claim" . NAH

[dannyhill]

Originally Posted by turninforhome10

On the other side of the coin, even the most extreme price difference will be 5k. If you will take the horse for 20k you probably would take the horse for 25k. "But we are saving 5k on the claim" . NAH

Size of purses at a track will affect claims. Tracks with smaller purses the claiming price will be more of a factor. Also if i want to take a flyer on a claim due to breeding, i may not be comfortable past a certain tag.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I don't know if there's a real correlation to be found. As Jason said, some guys just have that old school raging hot passion for weight off. If they believe they might be entering a little out of line anyway, the idea of getting a couple of pounds from the rest of the horses might just get them to run up and enter at the reduced price even if they aren't any less out of line than they were before that two pound gift became apparent.

Where I've been the disparity in offered claiming prices was always so minimal in these weight for dollars for conditions that if I had a horse I actually would prefer to not get claimed, I would enter for the lower price. Usually it was something like 8 down to 7 or in AZ you can decline to enter your AZ bred for the customary inflated claiming price when running in most open claiming races sans conditions - a 25% bump (ie, $6,250 AZbred for $8k).

There's always someone that will claim anything if it means another horse in a stall, but it seems to me that the moment you enter for the optional lower tag, almost everyone just assumes a desire to run for the lower tag is the red flag of all red flags. In other words, unless there's some data to make this one neat and tidy, I'd have to say it can't automatically mean anything and knowing the tendencies of the barn might be the only way to glean anything that might be of more benefit than asking Miss Cleo.

[Dan Montilion]

Originally Posted by gillenr

Not totally relevant, but I've seen a trainer take the lower weight......
.....and put a rider up who can't make the weight!

I did a pencil study on this. Decades ago in Mrs. Fell art class, mid 70's. Two years of NoCal, Socal. Decades ago but to this day I draw a line through this type of entrant. It has cost me very few winners that includes full time play since 1989. I have found a few barns in those years that win under these circumstances. Anecdotal yes, just one handicappers experience.

[whodoyoulike]

Originally Posted by Dan Montilion

I did a pencil study on this. Decades ago in Mrs. Fell art class, mid 70's. Two years of NoCal, Socal. Decades ago but to this day I draw a line through this type of entrant. It has cost me very few winners that includes full time play since 1989. I have found a few barns in those years that win under these circumstances. Anecdotal yes, just one handicappers experience.

I think we're saying the same thing (see above suggestion). But, you don't have to review 2 years worth to form an opinion. With the availability of charts for so many different tracks, it doesn't take that long.

[ultracapper]

Originally Posted by jballscalls

One thing I remember from working in the race office....trainers love to save on weight if they can! I was actually surprised how important it was to them.

Wasn't Frankel just a huge stickler on weight? Of course he didn't dabble in this particular scenario often, but I seem to remember a number of times that he entered horses and while waiting for weight assignments, be quoted, in almost a warning fashion, that if he wasn't happy with weight assignments.....well, you can fill out the scratch form right now.