HANDIFAST VERSION X

[douglasw32]

I love the idea, and played with it in the original (where I showed all the PP lines) but would beat myself not picking the right lines (my problem) so I just averaged them and let them work themselves out... works well most of the time, plus it evolved into a flat out summary and there would be no place to choose lines....

There are so many things I would love for it to do, and yes averages are flawed and yes choosing your line has it's flaws (mainly the human doing it)

That is why, honestly everyone has to keep in mind it is a tool to get you where you are going and only that.

Like right now during the fillies at SA.

My method is working, 2nd best PCR won the 1st, Best LP won the 2nd... and I managed to pick around both of them.

I am not even using the top 4 the computer kicks out.

I am looking at the top LP/top PC/ top 3 FM/ and top 2 ML

Then I move off the program on to something else... the something else I use tomorrow may change after I cancel my subscription !!! since I am taking a beating already, but that doesn't mean I am going to toss the tool out.

It picks contenders, if it does more great, it will never do less.

and paceline selection justy does not fit it's simplicity.

[Light]

Doug

Kudos to you for keeping a level head. I dont understand the immaturity of the others for a suggestion. I just picked the tri in the Grey Goose using 1 paceline per horse,boxing 4 horses. This has been working beautifully for several years. Nothing mysterious about paceline picking. Its a learning process. I'm happy with my method. Hope you are happy with yours and I shall bow out of any further comments as some here are clearly not open to new ideas.

[Handiman]

Picking pacelines is not a new idea. Check with HTR, Dave S. and the Sartin boys. Plus various others.

It's just not the direction this program has evolved into and most likely will not. But my hat is off to you Light if you can pick pacelines correctly. I have a very old paper program called 'SuperHorse' that will make you rich if you can select the right paceline all the time. I for one can't.

So thanks for your comments and good luck in the future. It's a fact of life some become Boy Scouts, some Future Farmers of America and some Street Gangs. That just proves there is a group for everyone. Handifast Users aren't paceline people, at least not at this juncture in life.

Handi

[Handiman]

Just for Kicks here is a copy of an email I got today from a handifast user.

Handi,



I don't have much time to spend racing today, tomorrow or Sunday. We're having some decent weather these days and I'm trying to help my wife with whatever yard work I can do. The prices have been better today.



Cd



R5 3-6-10-5 3-9-2-12 5.80



R6 7-10-2-8 10-1a-7-9 15.80



R7 12-2-1-8 12-2-10-7 8.40 ex 46.40



R8 2-7-6-3 9-3-8-1 out





Aqu



R6 1-8-6-7 1-8-3-7 6.90 ex 16.50



R7 8-3-1-6 1-8-6-3 19.40 ex 46.60 tri 554.00 supr 1,588.00



R8 1-4-6-10 4-3-6-12 24.00

[headhawg]

Originally Posted by Light

I dont understand the immaturity of the others for a suggestion.

Here's one of your "suggestions":

Just because you have the inability to program this very important feature into your program does not mean the program is somehow going to overcome it. That's why I'm not interested in trying it,even for free. How can you wager hard earned dough on such frivolous data. Sorry to be so blunt,but its the pink elephant in your program and after so many reply's about it,I think this point is way overdue.

Yeah. That was soooooooooooo helpful.

Originally Posted by Light

I have a homemade program just like this,except the output categories are somewhat different.It has the ability for user choice of paceline or have the computer just use automatic PL's.

Awhile back you guys asked for suggestions to your program. Do you just want pats on the back and sweet compliments or do you want something concrete? You can take my thoughts from experience as suggestions or offensively.

OMG! You invented picking pacelines? Wow. I never would have thought of that.

Originally Posted by Light

and I shall bow out of any further comments as some here are clearly not open to new ideas.

You didn't offer any. As usual. But you did manage to redboard that you picked a tri.

[douglasw32]

Hey seriously, anyone offended, don't be...

It is the nature of a message board everyone has an opinion.

Light may not have worded it in the most delicate way but I do believe what he was getting at is that it would be better for him if we could include picking pacelines.

Since he had never used the program he may not have realized it is a summary and picking pacelines is not what it was meant for.

If it was possible I have to agree it would be a great addition to making the summary work better just like using the weighted figures is.

However to do so would ruin it's simplicity as a contender selection tool.

And I really think anyone using it does that type of handicapping one way or another AFTER looking at the output, I myself have many times ignored the top 4 (Well and usually lost doing so)

It is a tough game, lots of ways to go at it.

I will try to redeem my bankroll tomorrow after having the Girls tar and feather me today at the windows.

(may have misspelled a few)

R1. (4) POUNCED with (10) Becky's Kitten & (11) Interactif

R2. (1) NOBLE COURT with (3) California Flag & (14) Delta Storm

R3. (5) GAYEGO with (9) Fleeting Spirit & (1) Zensational

R4. (5) D'FUNNYBONEwith (13) Lookin at Lucky & (9) Aikenite

R5. (11) GOLDIKOVA with (10) Justenufhumor & (5) Karelian

R6. (4) BULLSBAY with (5) Neko Bay & (10) Readys Echo

R7. (2) CONDUIT with (1) Telling & (4) Allegre

R8. (9) GIROLAMO with (12) Quality Road & (3) Summer Bird

Not sure what to do, but I am leaning towards a Win Bet on my top one with the other two over it in exactas.

for a whopping $48.00 Bucks.

[PaceAdvantage]

Good for you Doug!

BTW, did someone mistakenly tell Light that the little guy was involved with Handifast?

[Light]

Last try to get my point accross.

Originally Posted by douglasw32

it is a summary

But the summary is based on the pacelines the program selects.

That's my only point. It doesn't matter if you use the 1 paceline method or the 3 or 5 pacelines method.If the pacelines chosen are improper,your summary will be improper.They cannot be proper without either user guidance or a pre programmed selection method by the software. Otherwise,you are doing the equivalent of throwing darts with a computer program.

[headhawg]

Hey Light. Are you and 46z twins or something? Just because you can't win without picking pacelines doesn't mean that the program or another method is flawed. I haven't been playing the horses all that long but wasn't the biggest complaint about the Doc's software was that the user (luzer, as it were) was always being chastised for picking the wrong paceline? And that was the reason why the program didn't work? Salesmanship (or C.Y.A.) at work, I suppose.

My argument against picking a single paceline is that you are adding too much subjectivity to the outcome, in effect pre-determining it. So why bother with a program? Almost any idiot can assess the "best" horse by picking pacelines. So if you're going to do all of that pre-processing, why bother with using software anyway?

And what about form cycles? A single paceline doesn't account for that unless...again...you are doing all of the work in advance by predicting where in the cycle the horse is now, and then selecting the paceline that reflects that. And what if that is a race from a year ago and the trainer wins at 8% off long layoffs? Now what Mr. Paceline?

I keep hearing how people can't win doing this method or that method. That's a safe thing to say because the reality is that most people don't win. It's a parimutuel game after all. So you go ahead and pick your pacelines. I will go against the grain and not do that.

And please. Make your last post the last one in this thread. Take your troll-like behavior to Off-Topic.

[douglasw32]

Originally Posted by Light

Last try to get my point accross.

I got the point, I agreed with you, I think they all get your point but may not agree... it is like many other handicapping schools, not everyone will agree, but it all has some merit.

I forgot to mention it is not as simple as the last 5, I do recall putting in some logic that will not look at any of the races where the horse finished less than half the size of the field it faced unless it led at the 1st 2 calls or something like that.

The paceline selection for the EP and LP is then averaged. not perfect, but very objective rather than subjective.

And that is the point of a THIS computer program, to put you in the ballpark, not in the seat you will be in to watch the game.

The average would need to have a flaw in it (and I agree a flaw can throw an average, averages are far from sound) but it would need to do it in more than one category and 4 times in a row to end up throwing the program off.

That is why we have mentioned repeatedly it is a tool to use with other methods, single paceline selection would be the other method.

=)

Instead of everyone having there panty's in a bunch over this how about a few posts before the big day starts to match with the ones I have.

My newest refinement comes up with...

Race 2

Interactif
Gallant Gent
---
Race 3

Diamondrella

California Flag
---
Race 4

Gayego
Zensational

---
Race 5
Lookin At Lucky

D' Funnybone
---
Race 6
Goldikova
Ferneley
Whatsthescript

----
Race 7

Bullsbay
Mastercraftsman
---
Race 8

Presious Passion

Conduit
Spanish Moon
Allegre

---
Race 9

Summer Bird

Rip Van Winkle

[douglasw32]

Went with...

11/07/09OSA9$6 Exacta3,4,10 (Box)------
 11/07/09OSA8$6 Exacta2,6,7 (Box)------
 11/07/09OSA7$6 Exacta1,3,4 (Box)------
 11/07/09OSA6$6 Exacta2,7,11 (Box)------
 11/07/09OSA5$6 Exacta5,8,13 (Box)------
 11/07/09OSA4$6 Exacta1,5,9 (Box)------
 11/07/09OSA3$6 Exacta3,5,9 (Box)------
 11/07/09OSA2$6 Exacta3,5,11 (Box)------

Had to throw in the Wife's pick, after all she came up with all of this for this day each year.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by headhawg

Hey Light. Are you and 46z twins or something? Just because you can't win without picking pacelines doesn't mean that the program or another method is flawed. I haven't been playing the horses all that long but wasn't the biggest complaint about the Doc's software was that the user (luzer, as it were) was always being chastised for picking the wrong paceline? And that was the reason why the program didn't work? Salesmanship (or C.Y.A.) at work, I suppose.

Sartinistas picking the WRONG PACELINE?? What a ludicrous notion. Hard to do when you're picking/playing half the field (win and place). Moreover, from my experience, they always find a way to justify the winner of EVERY race -- there's always a winning paceline AFTER the FACT.

[Tom]

Hey ACE, you were whining yesterday about thread hijacking in selections.
This thread you have contributed "thumbs" and now this. Why don't you just slither back under your rock? This thread is obvious way beyond your pay grade. Are you that hard up to gt people to notice you? What a baby!

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Tom

Hey ACE, you were whining yesterday about thread hijacking in selections.
This thread you have contributed "thumbs" and now this. Why don't you just slither back under your rock? This thread is obvious way beyond your pay grade. Are you that hard up to gt people to notice you? What a baby!

You're basically FOLLOWING ME around, like POP, hanging on every word I type. Hard to believe you really have NOTHING ELSE to do than trying to get my attention, TOM. While I basically could care less what you (or POP) do. Wanna be my BITCH, is that it? I don't go that way. Sorry FAT BOY.

Then again, you're TOM, and this is what you do.

Do I need to put you back on ignore?

I'm just not interested, TOM.

Hope that keeps you away or I might have to appeal for a restraining order from the BOSS.

[douglasw32]

Well this one is going down Hill, I guess we should just cap it off and move on to another topic when the new version is out.