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Old 09-29-2022, 12:03 AM   #16
the little guy
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How about they cut the purses of all allowance and claiming races in half and Inflate the purse sizes of stakes races to maybe convince owners and trainers to actually run their horses.

Or do what you said and used the saved money to invest in the tapeta coming to Belmont park
This is actually the opposite of what works. The purses in Grade 1 races are somewhat irrelevant. The purses of the Grade 2 and Grade 3 races could be increased but never at the expense of the races you suggest.

Money spent on Cap-X projects is also completely separate from the purse fund.

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Old 09-29-2022, 01:19 AM   #17
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This is actually the opposite of what works. The purses in Grade 1 races are somewhat irrelevant. The purses of the Grade 2 and Grade 3 races could be increased but never at the expense of the races you suggest.

Money spent on Cap-X projects is also completely separate from the purse fund.

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The allowance races at Saratoga this year were as good as they have been in a decade, and the reason I'd bet was exactly as you suggest...they increased the purses.
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:35 AM   #18
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The racing secretary would know better, but I think the ability to run in those non graded stakes without conditions gives the connections of 2nd tier horses another way to avoid Graded Stakes. If we ran more NW3 ALW and maybe even an occasional NW4 or Classified like the old days, some of those horses would not fit the conditions of the ALW races and be forced to run in Graded Stakes. I just don't know if the ALW races would fill. Another possibility is that they would ship out and look for minor stakes elsewhere just to avoid the big guns. It's a tough problem, but I don't think it's just a horse shortage issue. There are too many top horses in the hands of too few people, too many ways to avoid the best competition, too many people looking for softer spots, and more people willing to ship around to accomplish that. I don't blame them for that, but it's impacting the bettability of major dirt stakes. The major tracks are competitors, but sometimes it's in everyone's best interests to cooperate on schedules.
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Old 09-29-2022, 11:34 AM   #19
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The allowance races at Saratoga this year were as good as they have been in a decade, and the reason I'd bet was exactly as you suggest...they increased the purses.
maybe the same reason at del mar
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Old 09-29-2022, 01:36 PM   #20
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Coming in 2nd in one of these 100k allowances races is as good as 3rd in a group level race and you get a softer field.

When Tiznow won the Goodwood in 2000, it had a 500K purse which is about 850K now, the same race now under the Awesome Again name goes for 300K this week.

Just zero incentive to run in group races under set weights and face the top of the divisions.
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Old 09-29-2022, 02:43 PM   #21
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Or better yet, go back to HANDICAP races, were LIG would getting 138 pounds. Try something, what they're doing sucks right now.
In Mel Allen voice - "wouldn't that be something!"

My all time favorite Forego defeating Honest Pleasure in the Woodward while conceding 18 pounds - priceless memory.

Those days appear to be gone, alas. Too many easy spots, too many tracks, top horses run a handful of times and then head off to the stud barn, etc., etc.
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Old 09-29-2022, 02:48 PM   #22
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Just zero incentive to run in group races under set weights and face the top of the divisions.
Maybe if you're a gelding, but if you're a stallion or broodmare prospect getting that blacktype still has value.
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Old 09-29-2022, 04:01 PM   #23
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Again, the racing secretary would know best how the races would fill, if something in the conditions could be tweaked, or if a few races could be eliminated. I'm just tossing things out there.

Specific to NY, there is a lucrative NY breeding program. The purses are inflated and there are breeder incentives. When you subsidize something, you are likely you get more of it and less of something else. That's what happened in NY over time. There are a lot of state bred races now and the quality keeps improving.

At one point the gap between NY Breds and open was fairly significant. These days there's not much of a gap between the state bred stakes and the corresponding overnight and listed stakes they run. Some of the better state bred horses would fit nicely in open non graded stakes.

Maybe there's a subtle way of pushing some of the better state bred stakes horses into open company via the conditions and then subtly pushing some of the non graded stakes horses into the graded stakes. That won't solve the issue of stand out favorites in some of the big graded stakes, but it could add a few horses that would make the races more interesting to exacta, trifecta, and superfecta bettors.
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Old 09-29-2022, 07:32 PM   #24
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In Mel Allen voice - "wouldn't that be something!"

My all time favorite Forego defeating Honest Pleasure in the Woodward while conceding 18 pounds - priceless memory.

Those days appear to be gone, alas. Too many easy spots, too many tracks, top horses run a handful of times and then head off to the stud barn, etc., etc.
It was the Marlboro Cup:-)
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:09 PM   #25
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It was the Marlboro Cup:-)
Talk about race sponsorships that did not survive the test of time.
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Old 09-29-2022, 10:13 PM   #26
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Talk about race sponsorships that did not survive the test of time.
At least Java Gold and Turkoman won the last two.
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Old 09-30-2022, 02:54 AM   #27
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Interesting choice with all the good races on Sat that DRF makes this the "Race of the Day".
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Old 09-30-2022, 08:39 AM   #28
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At least Java Gold and Turkoman won the last two.
You make a great point!
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Old 09-30-2022, 09:49 AM   #29
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It was the Marlboro Cup:-)
That's right - I was remembering Forego's 4 straight Woodward victories. The duel with Honest Pleasure wasn't one of them!

I loved that Woodward, Marlboro, Jockey Club Gold Cup sequence. Some real memorable races resulted back then.
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Old 09-30-2022, 05:52 PM   #30
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And in that sequence - one of the great trivia questions of all time whose end result makes me sad to this day.

Name the horse who beat not one but TWO Triple Crown winners in a single race:

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