Vic Zast On Takeout

[Horseplayersbet.com]

He doesn't really get it. Hopefully, I set him straight.
http://www.horseraceinsider.com/blog...eout-take-two/

[andymays]

Wake me when someone has a solution and is willing to take the steps to do something about it and not just talk about it.

More theories...........

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by andymays

Wake me when someone has a solution and is willing to take the steps to do something about it and not just talk about it.

More theories...........

The solution is there (lower all takeouts to 10%-12%). As Vic points out, it is going to be very hard to implement. You need to convince the tracks (this is what HANA is trying to do), and then you need to convince the individual jurisdictions.

Right now we are focusing on step one.

Go back to sleep if you feel that isn't good enough.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

The solution is there (lower all takeouts to 10%-12%). As Vic points out, it is going to be very hard to implement. You need to convince the tracks (this is what HANA is trying to do), and then you need to convince the individual jurisdictions.

Right now we are focusing on step one.

Go back to sleep if you feel that isn't good enough.

You want a Racing Executive to commit to significantly lower take for say a 60 day meet, keep purses high in order to attract large fields, and pay all it's bills.

It's no skin off my nose if they did and it would be great for all Horseplayers, but how many months do you expect a Track to lose money before the experiment pays off? Will it pay off in a month? A year? Where do they get the financing if they go bankrupt?

Until you can answer those questions, why is any Racing Executive going to listen to what you have to say?

In another thread Jeff implied that they read this stuff and he's right they always have.

Don't you think they're asking the same questions I did above?

Since they're reading give them an answer!

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by andymays

You want a Racing Executive to commit to significantly lower take for say a 60 day meet, keep purses high in order to attract large fields, and pay all it's bills.

It's no skin off my nose if they did and it would be great for all Horseplayers, but how many months do you expect a Track to lose money before the experiment pays off? Will it pay off in a month? A year? Where do they get the financing if they go bankrupt?

Until you can answer those questions why is any Racing Executive going to listen to what you have to say?

Studies suggest that lowering takeout will work.

It will work in the long run.

How is the current plan working out for the Racing Industry right now?

Tracks are losing money right now. The industry is in negative growth mode. If they were smart, they would grab the bull by the horns.

[jballscalls]

the part of the article i disagree with most is when he says "the horse racing industry is doing all it can to attract gamblers" that is BS. we have so much more we can do and need to do to get people in the doors, and when they are there, we need to show them a great time and a great product.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

Studies suggest that lowering takeout will work.

It will work in the long run.

How is the current plan working out for the Racing Industry right now?

Tracks are losing money right now. The industry is in negative growth mode. If they were smart, they would grab the bull by the horns.

The only thing they're gonna grab is all the cash they can in the short term and they're gonna grab with both fists probably by raising take.

You want them to gamble on banckruptcy without giving them anything but a theory to go on. God forbid they should try the 50% sale for one big day to get their feet wet. Big days work for the Kentucky Derby, Breeders' Cup, and the yearly sale at Nordstroms. Handle is increased in all instances but you don't believe it will increase for the 50% sale even it is promoted for three months.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by andymays

The only thing they're gonna grab is all the cash they can in the short term and they're gonna grab with both fists probably by raising take.

You want them to gamble on banckruptcy without giving them anything but a theory to go on. God forbid they should try the 50% sale for one big day to get their feet wet. Big days work for the Kentucky Derby, Breeders' Cup, and the yearly sale at Nordstroms. Handle is increased in all instances but you don't believe it will increase for the 50% sale even it is promoted for three months.

A one day event won't work. But you can keep thinking it will. People don't care about takeout in that way. Sorry.

Again, studies have been made that show they are not risking bankruptcy. Also, Betfair proves they are not risking bankruptcy.

People bet until they dry up. Most people dry up quite a few times a season. When they dry up, they find they can live without horse racing. They stop following jockeys, trainers, horses in trouble. They are less likely to expose any family members, friends, and coworkers to horse racing.

It is pretty simple. And there is no risk to the industry at all.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

A one day event won't work. But you can keep thinking it will. People don't care about takeout in that way. Sorry.

Again, studies have been made that show they are not risking bankruptcy. Also, Betfair proves they are not risking bankruptcy.

People bet until they dry up. Most people dry up quite a few times a season. When they dry up, they find they can live without horse racing. They stop following jockeys, trainers, horses in trouble. They are less likely to expose any family members, friends, and coworkers to horse racing.

It is pretty simple. And there is no risk to the industry at all.

It is my understanding that some Racing Execs from California read this section in PA on a daily basis.

Lets suppose you are in front of them to make your case.

What's your pitch to get them to lower take for the upcoming Santa Anita meet?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by andymays

It is my understanding that some Racing Execs from California read this section in PA on a daily basis.

Lets suppose you are in front of them to make your case.

What's your pitch to get them to lower take for the upcoming Santa Anita meet?

Unfortunately if one or two tracks lower to 12%, it won't help them much. It might even cost them, because people bet back the extra money they win at other venues.
This needs to be done by many tracks at the same time. Almost an impossibility for such a dysfunctional industry.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

Unfortunately if one or two tracks lower to 12%, it won't help them much. It might even cost them, because people bet back the extra money they win at other venues.
This needs to be done by many tracks at the same time. Almost an impossibility for such a dysfunctional industry.

The big guys in California are looking in. Although they're a contemptible bunch in my opinion (and they know it) you have to give them a reason to listen to you.

This is sales and you have to sell it!

[andymays]

What if we tried a hypothetical.


There is only one track in America.

What would the handle most likely be?

What would the takeout likely need to be for the only track in America to make a good profit and have big fields with big purses?


Build the industry over again from there. At what point do we have too many Tracks and not enough handle? 5 Tracks, 10 Tracks, 50 Tracks?

[andymays]

90 Days from now Company X is going to have a 50% off sale and they are going to advertise the hell out of it for the next 89 days.

Socks are going to be 50% off. On that day I'm gonna buy a bunch of socks whether I need them or not because they are 50% off.

Flat Screen TV's are going to be 50% off. On that day I'm gonna buy 2 or three flat screen TV's because they are 50% off.

Cars are going to be 50% off. On that day I'm gonna buy at least one car and maybe two because they are 50% off.

50% off takeout day will work if it's promoted properly and the industry will be forever changed. Believe it or not!

[MONEY]

Retama has a 12% takeout on it's DDs and big fields. They usually don't get even $1000. a race bet on their DDs.
I'm in my mid 50s. When I go to the track, i'm usually one of the youngest people there.
The only way to attract more money, is to find new customers. With lotteries and slot machines to compete against, getting new gamblers interested in horse racing will be a difficult task. Free PPs and a little TV advertising showing off some big winners might help.

money

[rrbauer]

I will waste my time once more.

Horseplayers are customers. Customers who are not getting what they want: Lower takeout, an improved product, a say in the future of the game, an industry that will throw off its old, worn out approaches and embrace a new direction with customers as partners.

Horseplayers have an organization: HANA. It's been around for a year, or so, and has received some recognition. HANA's problem is that it embraces a low-key, "positive" approach in its relations with the industry. HANA needs to be a proactive force in the industry. HANA needs to recognize and embrace the idea that the only bargaining chip that horseplayers have with the rest of the industry is their MONEY. HANA needs to call out those policies that are hurting the game and INSIST that they be changed; or, the industry will see a loss of revenue and customers if they aren't changed. HANA needs to do this. The time for being nice is over. If HANA and its membership truly wants to change the game and be a part of the future then they need to play their bargaining chip to the hilt. If HANA and its membership will not make a stand NOW....then it will never make a stand.

So let's stop kidding ourselves about what HANA will or won't do; what HANA can or can't do. Let's do it; or, let's quit wasting our time and energy over issues that conversation will not resolve.