How'd you get your start? Any tips for a noob?

[thaskalos]

If you are indeed a semi-professional online poker player...then the best advice I can give you is not to tie up too much of your bankroll in horse racing. Depending on where you live...the chances are that online poker will be legalized long before you will make sense of this game of ours.

Unlike poker...our game has very little published information out there that you can trust. There are many people out there who are more than willing to sell you information that is "guaranteed" to make you a "winner"...but I wouldn't trust them any further than I can throw them.

If you are to have a chance at beating this game regularly, then you are going to have to do all of the work yourself, and, regrettably...that's likely to take you years. Even the advice of well-meaning friends is likely to be confusing and contradictory...as you have probably already noticed from the responses in this thread.

No two horseplayers think alike...and everybody has their own way of doing things. And you will need to find your own way too...

They don't call this the hardest game for nothing...

[TheStuntman]

Indeed there is a lot of different information out there, my head is spinning just from the advice from this thread. I however like challenges. I don't play poker anymore, I just got tired of it, I don't find it enjoyable anymore plus the whole legality thing. I had 8.6k on Full Tilt Poker before Black Friday, at least here horse racing is free as much as I hate that fact and find it contradictory, but whatever the rich people of America deems legal will be so.

[SharpCat]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If you are indeed a semi-professional online poker player...then the best advice I can give you is not to tie up too much of your bankroll in horse racing. Depending on where you live...the chances are that online poker will be legalized long before you will make sense of this game of ours.

Unlike poker...our game has very little published information out there that you can trust. There are many people out there who are more than willing to sell you information that is "guaranteed" to make you a "winner"...but I wouldn't trust them any further than I can throw them.

If you are to have a chance at beating this game regularly, then you are going to have to do all of the work yourself, and, regrettably...that's likely to take you years. Even the advice of well-meaning friends is likely to be confusing and contradictory...as you have probably already noticed from the responses in this thread.

No two horseplayers think alike...and everybody has their own way of doing things. And you will need to find your own way too...

They don't call this the hardest game for nothing...

Agree 100%.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If you are indeed a semi-professional online poker player...then the best advice I can give you is not to tie up too much of your bankroll in horse racing. Depending on where you live...the chances are that online poker will be legalized long before you will make sense of this game of ours.

Unlike poker...our game has very little published information out there that you can trust. There are many people out there who are more than willing to sell you information that is "guaranteed" to make you a "winner"...but I wouldn't trust them any further than I can throw them.

If you are to have a chance at beating this game regularly, then you are going to have to do all of the work yourself, and, regrettably...that's likely to take you years. Even the advice of well-meaning friends is likely to be confusing and contradictory...as you have probably already noticed from the responses in this thread.

No two horseplayers think alike...and everybody has their own way of doing things. And you will need to find your own way too...

They don't call this the hardest game for nothing...

Yeah, I didn't want to scare him off! We need the money in the pools

[raybo]

Originally Posted by TheStuntman

Indeed there is a lot of different information out there, my head is spinning just from the advice from this thread. I however like challenges. I don't play poker anymore, I just got tired of it, I don't find it enjoyable anymore plus the whole legality thing. I had 8.6k on Full Tilt Poker before Black Friday, at least here horse racing is free as much as I hate that fact and find it contradictory, but whatever the rich people of America deems legal will be so.

Well, if you love challenges, then you certainly picked the right game! Chess ain't got nothin on horse racing.

As a matter of fact, horse racing makes chess look like playtime in kindergarten.

[TheStuntman]

Originally Posted by cordep17

It is important to bet your opinion. If you have a strong feeling about 2 horses in a race an exacta box might be for you. Ifyou really like one horse and you think a few others have a shot at second, maybe you should do a partial wheel.

A single horse bet that I have picked up and like a lot is the ladder.
2-4-8
3-6-12
4-8-16
each to win place show. It is more for grinding out the wins rather than making huge on one race. If you ladder a horse and it finished third, you usually barely miss making money. If it places you profit, and if it wins, you can make some good money.

Can you or someone else explain what a partial wheel/wheel bet is? Also what's a ladder bet? I haven't heard those before.

[raybo]

Originally Posted by TheStuntman

Can you or someone else explain what a partial wheel/wheel bet is? Also what's a ladder bet? I haven't heard those before.

Typically a "wheel" means you bet one horse above all the others in the race, in the vertical exotics; exacta, trifecta, superfecta. A"partial" wheel would be betting one horse above some of the others in the race. A "key" is when you bet one horse in all positions by himself, and some others in all the other positions.

The horizontal exotics are similar but from race to race rather than in a single race; daily doubles, pic 3,4,5,6.

"Ladder" refers to the amount bet on each position, like $2 to win, $4 to place, $8 to show, all on the same horse. "Across" or "across the board" means to bet the same amount on each position; $2 win, $2 place, $2 show, all on the same horse.

[Hajck Hillstrom]

Originally Posted by TheStuntman

Hajck Hillstrom can you elaborate on the bolded.

In certain arenas, one can make a 10cent superfecta wager, or a 50cent Pik4/5 wager. 20cent plays are available at Woodbine. Utilize these pools in the learning process.

[menifee]

The easier part of this game is being a good handicapper. The harder part is learning how to wager. Managing bankroll, recognizing value and picking your spots are the most difficult aspect of this game. You can't learn discipline - like you can learn a circuit or learn how to read a form. Or how to develop pace/speed figures, etc. Discipline is extremely tough. The best handicappers I know will not bet a race for three days, but then when they see value they pounce.

Someone else said it, but stick with win wagers when learning. It will help you teach you that discipline. You are a CPA, so pull out your college and CPA exam prep materials and review the concept of expected value.

[JJMartin]

A word of caution to the stuntman. If you decide to embark on the journey of data analysis within the charts and pp's, going over hundreds or even thousands of races, you will most certainly start to notice "patterns" in the data figures that suggest a winning method can be created from those observations. I'm not talking about the obvious single factors such as high speed figures, top jock etc - those are well known angles by the public and are employed perpetually. I mean when you start combining or even creating your own figures. Your mind will naturally start to notice patterns in the data as you normally would in any environment. This is called back-fitting.

The reality will set in when you attempt to actually bet live according to this information but you don't win at the anticipated rate and payoff that your research concluded to. This is due to all the unseen or undetectable variables that were part of the sample of the past races that are not present or not as influential in the present (forward) races. Also, some factors are just 'incidental' in the backward view and mean absolutely nothing. Take for example the lottery. In the lotto they keep records of how many times the numbers have occurred in past drawings. Certain numbers will be drawn more than others despite the fact that each drawing is a totally random event with the odds of any ball being drawn being exactly the same from drawing to drawing. Now if the #30 had the highest occurrence in the history of the lotto, would you think you have a better chance of winning by playing that number from now on? The point is, even when you are careful and thorough, it is very easy to be deceived. Like the guy said in a previous post, don't think you know something just because you hit a cluster of winners. Start with win only bets, play on paper and test forward. You will hear a thousand opinions, this is just mine.

In horse racing, obvious factors like speed figures can be established as having a definite predictive value but because the whole world has access to them, they are logically over bet. I'm not trying to imply that a winning method cannot be created from the info in the pp's but be prepared to go down a dead end street - a million times. Now, not everyone handicaps strictly with figures, some watch replays and employ the method of trip handicapping, making observations and noting events within a race and then using that information to possibly gain an edge in a future race. Some use both.

Being profitable long term in horse racing is extremely elusive, with every other bettor as your competition and the greedy track takeout to contend with.

[wiffleball whizz]

The stuntman seems like good people to me.......but I feel if I tell him to not bet horseracing I'm hurting the game......the stuntman betting horse racing isn't gonna keep the game going single handily but On the other hand I think he should just stay away from horse racing....please nobody get mad at me saying this but it's not designed to Win money......only 50 people in county can do it.....if that

Please be careful.....betting horses is like playing with a loaded gun......nothing really good can come out of it....

Go bet some exacta keys and have a good time....then come back here and tell horror stories like me......At 32 I shouldn't be able to tell the stories I tell

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by wiffleball whizz

The stuntman seems like good people to me.......but I feel if I tell him to not bet horseracing I'm hurting the game......the stuntman betting horse racing isn't gonna keep the game going single handily but On the other hand I think he should just stay away from horse racing....please nobody get mad at me saying this but it's not designed to Win money......only 50 people in county can do it.....if that

Please be careful.....betting horses is like playing with a loaded gun......nothing really good can come out of it....

Go bet some exacta keys and have a good time....then come back here and tell horror stories like me......At 32 I shouldn't be able to tell the stories I tell

Can you imagine the stories you'll be able to tell, when you get to be 51 like me?

[wiffleball whizz]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Can you imagine the stories you'll be able to tell, when you get to be 51 like me?

Oh my god......it will be a nightmare.....

I'm prob out of line saying this but me trying to get somebody to pick up the habit of betting horses is no different then me putting a crackpipe in front of somebody and telling him to try this thy this....

Like my friend tells me......"when you win at the casino or track it's just temporary custody"......he tell me he's down over 800k betting horses in his life...He's 59

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by wiffleball whizz

Oh my god......it will be a nightmare.....

I'm prob out of line saying this but me trying to get somebody to pick up the habit of betting horses is no different then me putting a crackpipe in front of somebody and telling him to try this thy this....

Like my friend tells me......"when you win at the casino or track it's just temporary custody"......he tell me he's down over 800k betting horses in his life...He's 59

There is a great line in the movie HAVANA...starring Robert Redford.

Redford plays a middle-aged professional poker player in Havana, Cuba...during the pre-Castro era. He sleeps all day, and looks for high-stake poker games all night.

One night, he is sitting alone at a bar having a drink...and a friend approaches him.

"What's the matter...you don't look good"...the friend says to him.

And Redford replies: "A terrible thought just occurred to me. I'm not gonna die young".

Classic line...I thought.

When you live every day as if it could be your last...then you better hope that you are not too far wrong.

[TrifectaMike]

Welcome...

Read a few handicapping books (I agree with Magister and others they basically are useless for betting purposes). Read the books from a perspective of what others maybe doing.

Learn at minimum Chi Square testing. DeltaLover has some interesting examples of its use and utility on his site, Mind of A Gambler, http://alogatas.wordpress.com/

Review or study the basics of probability.

Review or study subject of decision under uncertainty.

Review or study stochastic vs deterministic systems.

Do your own reseach.

Decide on a framework for your handicapping process.

Study the behaviour of odds.

This should keep you busy and give a solid fountain from which to attack the racing game.

Good Luck

Mike