Goodbye Mud Calks At Meadowlands

[slewis]

Originally Posted by Shenanigans

Sorry pal, your 100% incorrect.

I know most trainers don't use mud calks on ALL their horses. How long do you think I've been in this game?
Secondly, a dry race track is nothing like a dry beach. It has been watered (unless poorly maintained), and yes, the ground may give to a degree, but the comparison to a beach is wrong.
Third, any smart trainer knows that if the hoof is inhibited from rotating a certain amount in the turn, this can possibly cause injury. Think about it. The hoof gets "stuck" while the rest of the leg is turning - not good. Horses don't run peg legged. There is action in every joint. That "pegged" hoof allows stress to travel up the leg. Comparing horses to humans doesn't hold up in your theory unless we had hooves and ran on all fours also.

It's such a waste of time reasoning with some people.... next time your at the track.. go over to Jerkens, McLaughlin, Zito, Levine or Hushion and give them you're theory and demand they stop using them.......also, tell them how much experience you have and how many Graded races you've beaten them in......
Just let me know so I can be there for the laugh....

[Shenanigans]

Originally Posted by slewis

It's such a waste of time reasoning with some people.... next time your at the track.. go over to Jerkens, McLaughlin, Zito, Levine or Hushion and give them you're theory and demand they stop using them.......also, tell them how much experience you have and how many Graded races you've beaten them in......
Just let me know so I can be there for the laugh....

Just because I am not bowing down and kissing your ass, oh great one,you think it's a "waste of time"? I am not trying to reason with you. I am merely asking legit questions. Some to which you can't answer without spinning. I can see in my last post (by your post) that I raised a question you can't answer.
Sure, tell us you gave all this information to these trainers and that they agree with you. Well, gee, I had lunch last week with Shug, Phipps and Janney and they informed me of the agenda they are up to.
BTW, do you seriously think that we are going to believe that these trainers are actually coming to you and asking you questions about mud calks and horse shoes???? What Graded races have beaten them in to make them worship your theories???

[barn32]

Originally Posted by the little guy

You can stop questioning Slewis.....it's possible he is the biggest authority there is in the world on this subject and I can personally vouch that he is observing this every day....every race at the NYRA racetracks.He and I disagree on many things, quite frequently, but he is always there observing and noting the shoes.

Stop questioning? Interesting response. Look, I used to do this everyday myself, and unless the horses walk on concrete or asphalt (which he verified) then it is impossible to tell. He cleared that up for me. Yes, I was skeptical. So what? I wanted to know how he did it, he explained it and I appreciate it.

By the way, for those of you who think it would be easy to tell, just go down to the paddock sometime and try and figure out for yourself who is wearing jars and who isn't. Then come back and tell me not to question anybody. Until that happens you don't know what you're talking about.

Thanks Slewis, I appreciate your clarifications. Your ability to do this with binoculars is very impressive.

[slewis]

Originally Posted by Shenanigans

Just because I am not bowing down and kissing your ass, oh great one,you think it's a "waste of time"? I am not trying to reason with you. I am merely asking legit questions. Some to which you can't answer without spinning. I can see in my last post (by your post) that I raised a question you can't answer.
Sure, tell us you gave all this information to these trainers and that they agree with you. Well, gee, I had lunch last week with Shug, Phipps and Janney and they informed me of the agenda they are up to.
BTW, do you seriously think that we are going to believe that these trainers are actually coming to you and asking you questions about mud calks and horse shoes???? What Graded races have beaten them in to make them worship your theories???

In all niceness and with respect... I dont expect ANYONE to bow and kiss, etc.. I've ALWAYS tried to be factual with my posts.. (read The Little Guy's post here).. he knows who I am and my thoroughness in this subject.
I have been on the OTB show from Saratoga giving my (and others) opinions of why shoes are effective and the theories behind those opinions. I didn't ask to be on the show.. they asked me.. and they ask me to return each year which I have declined. I try to back my theories up with stats.. and if you didnt know I had these stats (like several trainers have, one saying to me he KNOWS how deadly mud calks are) then you would be arguing till no end.. but I back up what I say, as I often try to do. This, in a game where people readily voice OPINION as fact.
I routinely speak to trainers every racing day.. and when guys are first starting out, they have sought my opinion on this. Chad Brown, a former Frankel assistant who had a good SPA meet, is a young man just starting on his own. He wants to win. He wants to give himself every edge he can, withoout jeopardizing his horses health, so he asked.
This summer at Saratoga, he introduced himself and we started talking.
He has seen me looking at horses every day, and noting equiptment. He asked me about mud calks and their effectiveness and risk.
I gave him my honest opinions. It's up to him if he ever wanted to try and use them. Is this story so far fetched????? The same took place with McLauglin and Pletcher when they first went out on their own. I dont see what the amazement is or why your skeptical. I dont look it like I'm a guru or anything, it's a small aspect of the sport. But in a game where sometimes inches can mean millions, the top trainers are curious.
Like I said... no big deal...

[bigmack]

Slewis - I believe. You come with sound references.

No shortage of work there fella. Where in the grand scheme of things would you %'ly put footwear in your betting decisions?

[slewis]

Thanks for the kudos.....



There have been several posts on PA ny several who have factored in Mud calks to their betting repetoire. I am a situation- type handicapper so I couldn't go into specifics, but it certainly can be a factor.

I'll tell everyone a personal opinion that I actually haven't double checked myself data-wise, but I've been around long enough to believe.....

Mud calks have always worked MORE effectively, in my opinion, on dry tracks then sloppy tracks.

In a previous reply to another postee, I explain my theory why.

It's the same principal as a football or baseball player trying to turn, they wear cleats because when they put they're foot down they want to grip in and NOT slide horizantally (an exaggeration would be your foot sliding out on ice). Horizantal movement causes injury and a horse that does not feel comfortable under their feet will not push off hard and try, especially on turns and even more so on tight turns.
Mud calks help, not hinder this scenario.
I'm going to predict, unfortunetly, that this winter at Aqueduct with the tight turns on the inner track, we will see a greater number of breakdowns with this ruling, and more inconsistant racing, since almost 30% of all runners on the inner are shod with mud calks.
Turf horses dont perform well on dirt primarily due to this "sliding" action.

[Shenanigans]

Originally Posted by slewis

Thanks for the kudos.....



There have been several posts on PA ny several who have factored in Mud calks to their betting repetoire. I am a situation- type handicapper so I couldn't go into specifics, but it certainly can be a factor.

I'll tell everyone a personal opinion that I actually haven't double checked myself data-wise, but I've been around long enough to believe.....

Mud calks have always worked MORE effectively, in my opinion, on dry tracks then sloppy tracks.

In a previous reply to another postee, I explain my theory why.

It's the same principal as a football or baseball player trying to turn, they wear cleats because when they put they're foot down they want to grip in and NOT slide horizantally (an exaggeration would be your foot sliding out on ice). Horizantal movement causes injury and a horse that does not feel comfortable under their feet will not push off hard and try, especially on turns and even more so on tight turns.
Mud calks help, not hinder this scenario.
I'm going to predict, unfortunetly, that this winter at Aqueduct with the tight turns on the inner track, we will see a greater number of breakdowns with this ruling, and more inconsistant racing, since almost 30% of all runners on the inner are shod with mud calks.
Turf horses dont perform well on dirt primarily due to this "sliding" action.

With all the research you have done in your study, you should have done a little studying to understand how the motion and mechanics of an equine leg/legs work.
While in college I attended a program that had a study on shod and unshod horses and the placement and action of the hoof and leg. It was quite interesting. Granted, mud calks were not one of the shoes studied, but after seeing ones similiar I can understand the concern behind them being used.

[slewis]

Shen,


I have done research, and much reading, and consulting with vets, and more reading and more equine books.

I would NEVER put a horse in jeopardy. Trainers have thrown me out of the barn often when I play with the horses I'm involved with. (they really ask me politely).

"He's a racehorse, not a pet" is the standard line and my que to leave.

I'm asking everyone on this forum to keep an open mind.....
I've provided TOP TRAINERS names and a study with proof.

Anyone who really wanted to call me on the trainer stuff can meet me at Belmont and I'll march them right over to McLaughlin or Hushion or Levine and they can ask them for themselves, or pick another that races in Mud calks, I know them all. (not that I go out to dinner with them, but I know them and have spoken on numerous occasions on this subject)

Shen, hard racetracks, poor confirmation, and trainers who race horses when not sound are the MAIN CAUSES of injury and death of the Thoroughbred.

Not shoes.....

Thanks for the replay.

[Stevie Belmont]

Calks or no Calks...it won't effect my betting. It was something I looked at...In particular the Aqueduct inner meet. Everyone will be equal with the shoes. So no big deal. The beat goes on.