 |
|
05-06-2018, 09:11 PM
|
#346
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,487
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargieRose
|
MargieRose,
Thanks for the good reads.
I find it ironic that a nice lady (you) addresses a post to someone and he engages his boyfriend in posts while ignoring your post.
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 09:41 PM
|
#347
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargieRose
|
I got about half way through the first one and found so many misconceptions and errors about the way the economy works, I didn't bother reading further.
Picking two at random, he says:
Quote:
The obvious question (that no one ever asks) is how can we afford this trade deficit? After all, nothing’s free.
Since America’s running a trade deficit, this means we’re either selling assets and/or debts to pay for foreign goods—there’s no such thing as a free lunch.
|
First of all, the US doesn't trade with China. American companies and consumers trade with Chinese companies and consumers. And they don't pay by selling assets and/or debts, they pay with a way he ignores, earned dollars.
In another place, he says that a trade deficit results in unemployment:
Quote:
|
In 2015, America’s goods trade deficit was $736 billion, or 4% of our GDP. Since GDP is simply the total output made by America’s working population, and since 4% of America’s GDP is imported, then it follows that 4% of America’s workers are displaced by these imports.
|
No, 4% of GDP is not imported. Imports are not counted in GDP. If he is trying to say that GDP would be 4% higher if those imports were manufactured here, he would still be wrong. We buy those imports because they are cheaper than they could be made here. If we made them here, Americans couldn't afford them, or would have to give up other purchases to pay for them. And the things he is talking about would most likely be produced by automation, rather than creating a lot of new jobs.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
|
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 10:06 PM
|
#348
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
MargieRose,
Thanks for the good reads.
I find it ironic that a nice lady (you) addresses a post to someone and he engages his boyfriend in posts while ignoring your post.
|
The first is a trainwreck of economic misconceptions... it's misplacing sound economics by cherry picking data...
I posted a Friedman video or two on the subject so far in this thread and it's been ignored like it has leprosy.
Here is something to look at that kinda debunks the first one in a graph...
Margie does get props though for at least posting something relevant as opposed to your drivel. Thanks Margie. 
|
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 10:14 PM
|
#349
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 5,597
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Thank you for that detailed argument proving Trump's superior understanding of the subject.
I'm not asking anyone to take my word. I provide sources for what I say, something neither Trump nor the Trumpettes do. I have shown here many times that Trump's ideas on tariffs have been rejected, and proven wrong, by economists and top business sources from both sides of the aisle.
Trump studied economics at Wharton in the late 1960s. At that time, and when I first studied economics some years later, the mainstream economic theories were based on the writings of John Maynard Keynes. A large part of the economic theory that the Neo-Keynesians were teaching back then has been debunked. Most of us have moved on since then. Trump has not. At least as far as economics and trade are concerned, Trump is still living in the 60's.
|
Either Trump is the luckiest SOB on the planet or he does know something about business and the economy....
You can ask almost ANYONE about his wealth and I'm sure they almost unanimously agree it starts with a "B".....
That's all the credentials I need to see that he knows something about what the hell he is doing when it comes to business and the economy... 
__________________
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed.
|
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 10:26 PM
|
#350
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,972
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Tariffs are taxes on imports. Taxes get passed on to the consumer, or the company can't stay in business. Trump has imposed a 30% import tax on imported solar panels, and the great majority of solar panels here are imported. Who do you think pays that tax? It is simple economics.
|
what was the price of the solar panels before President Trump imposed the 30 % import tax? What is it currently? If any went up did all USA companies solar panels go up in price?
|
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 10:28 PM
|
#351
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,972
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Trump doesn't understand economics in general, or trade in particular. A "trade deficit", which is also known as a capital surplus, is not a bad thing for the economy. It keeps prices down and capital investment up. American steel makers have already increased prices in response to the tariffs. My guess is that those prices will stand as long as the tariffs are in place. During the 2016 campaign, Trump's economic expert said that his tariffs would increase consumer prices 10-15%. Is that an acceptable "pain" for the average American worker?
The trade deficit is a red flag issue for Trump because he believes that it is killing manufacturing jobs in this country. The truth is that over 80% of lost manufacturing jobs in this country have been lost to automation, not to jobs moving off-shore. And he doesn't understand that the resulting capital surplus creates more jobs. The problem for him is that they tend not to be manufacturing jobs.
Solar paneling was just a random example. Trump has also put tariffs on washing machines, steel, aluminum, and Canadian lumber, all of which mean higher prices for consumers. And higher prices mean lower demand for American products too.
Production of solar panels is highly automated, and even manufacturers in this country are mostly foreign companies. The big unintended consequence in this industry is because the vast majority of American solar jobs are in installation, not manufacturing. Industry groups have estimated that decreased demand due to higher prices could eliminate up to 20,000 installer jobs.
How is any of this going to benefit the nation in the long haul?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-a...-solar-panels/
|
Do you know President Trump? Do you hang out with President Trump? Do you do business with President Trump?
|
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 10:36 PM
|
#352
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,972
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Thank you for that detailed argument proving Trump's superior understanding of the subject.
I'm not asking anyone to take my word. I provide sources for what I say, something neither Trump nor the Trumpettes do. I have shown here many times that Trump's ideas on tariffs have been rejected, and proven wrong, by economists and top business sources from both sides of the aisle.
Trump studied economics at Wharton in the late 1960s. At that time, and when I first studied economics some years later, the mainstream economic theories were based on the writings of John Maynard Keynes. A large part of the economic theory that the Neo-Keynesians were teaching back then has been debunked. Most of us have moved on since then. Trump has not. At least as far as economics and trade are concerned, Trump is still living in the 60's.
|
are theses the same business peeps that got us in the economic trouble we are in? Are these the same business peeps that allowed most countries to sell products here and screw us when we try to sell products there?
|
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 10:41 PM
|
#353
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtothegame
Either Trump is the luckiest SOB on the planet or he does know something about business and the economy....
You can ask almost ANYONE about his wealth and I'm sure they almost unanimously agree it starts with a "B".....
That's all the credentials I need to see that he knows something about what the hell he is doing when it comes to business and the economy... |
Success in one area doesn't mean you can automatically do well in another. You don't have to know anything about tariffs to be a big success in New York real estate or as a TV entertainer. And being good in those areas doesn't say anything about your abilities to run a casino. As somebody once said, a man's got to know his limitations.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
|
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 10:45 PM
|
#354
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhorseplayer
Do you know President Trump? Do you hang out with President Trump? Do you do business with President Trump?
|
What has any of that got to doing with knowing that his tariff policies have been tried and failed in the past, and he wants to repeat the same failed policies?
George W. Bush imposed steel tariffs on China and they were a failure. What makes anyone think that Trump tariffs are any different than Bush tariffs?
Why can't Trump supporters attack the criticism of Trump's policies rather than attack the critics?
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
Last edited by Clocker; 05-06-2018 at 10:48 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 10:50 PM
|
#355
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,972
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
What has any of that got to doing with knowing that his tariff policies have been tried and failed in the past, and he wants to repeat the same failed policies?
George W. Bush imposed steel tariffs on China and they were a failure. What makes anyone think that Trump tariffs are any different than Bush tariffs?
|
Cause you stated President Trump does not understand economics in general or trade in particular and if you dont know him then how could you make this statement?
How long has President Trumps policies been in effect? How many of President Trumps policies have failed? Dont you believe it would take at least a little time to know if they work or not?
|
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 10:52 PM
|
#356
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,972
|
maybe the difference in bushs tariffs and President Trumps tariffs is the art of the deal, you know the exemption
|
|
|
|
|
05-06-2018, 10:55 PM
|
#357
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhorseplayer
Cause you stated President Trump does not understand economics in general or trade in particular and if you dont know him then how could you make this statement?
|
I am jumping to the rash conclusion that his tariff policies are what he says they are. And what they are have been proven unworkable.
Do you know him? How can you support his tariff policies if you don't know him?
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
|
|
|
|
|
05-07-2018, 12:14 AM
|
#358
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,972
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
I am jumping to the rash conclusion that his tariff policies are what he says they are. And what they are have been proven unworkable.
Do you know him? How can you support his tariff policies if you don't know him?
|
How long could President Trumps policies have possibly been in effect?
You can support his policies without knowing him however to say he does or dosnt know something you would have to know him on a personal level.
|
|
|
|
|
05-23-2018, 11:20 PM
|
#359
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,487
|
|
|
|
|
|
05-23-2018, 11:35 PM
|
#360
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,487
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
