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Old 10-09-2020, 07:42 PM   #1
jameegray1
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Hawthorne R7 dead heat

Judges just called this as a dead heat.

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File Type: jpg haw 2.jpg (77.4 KB, 96 views)
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Old 10-09-2020, 08:11 PM   #2
sharkey11
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photo shop any one
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:32 PM   #3
v j stauffer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameegray1 View Post
Judges just called this as a dead heat.
What would the judges gain by intentionally getting this wrong? Having been in this exact decision making process I can say when it's this close we look for a way to present visual affirmation of a dead heat. I think they accomplished that. Everybody gets something from what they posted. Find a radical millimeter favoring one over the other will anger and disappoint a group of people needlessly.
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Old 10-12-2020, 02:58 PM   #4
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What would the judges gain by intentionally getting this wrong? Having been in this exact decision making process I can say when it's this close we look for a way to present visual affirmation of a dead heat. I think they accomplished that. Everybody gets something from what they posted. Find a radical millimeter favoring one over the other will anger and disappoint a group of people needlessly.
Thanks for your input. It's really useful to understand how the judges approach a close photo process.

Granted in the photo we see it is difficult to clearly make out the position of the lower horse compared to the line shown, but for me the top horse is clearly through the line.

Would be interesting to see the actual print. Do these get published anywhere in the US for the public to review?

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Old 10-12-2020, 04:18 PM   #5
v j stauffer
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Originally Posted by jameegray1 View Post
Thanks for your input. It's really useful to understand how the judges approach a close photo process.

Granted in the photo we see it is difficult to clearly make out the position of the lower horse compared to the line shown, but for me the top horse is clearly through the line.

Would be interesting to see the actual print. Do these get published anywhere in the US for the public to review?
Most tracks post all photos on their website. I know Oaklawn does.
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Old 10-14-2020, 10:40 PM   #6
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At least they have the correct horses and photo

We still laugh about a tight photo at Fairmount Park, where the Photo picture was posted and it was neither the correct Silks of Riders or numbers of horses.
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Old 10-15-2020, 12:25 AM   #7
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Keep in mind, the line is a tool, it is not the finish line.
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Old 10-15-2020, 12:59 PM   #8
v j stauffer
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Keep in mind, the line is a tool, it is not the finish line.
Very true
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Old 10-16-2020, 01:25 PM   #9
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Keep in mind, the line is a tool, it is not the finish line.
I think this is what confuses everyone every time this comes up.

People have a hard time grasping that the PHOTO ITSELF is THE FINISH LINE...lol

Doesn't matter where that artificial yellow/white line is placed. It doesn't actually change the photo.

All it is, is a virtual ruler. It means absolutely NOTHING in the grand scheme of things.

But everyone fixates on it...so thanks for pointing that out again...it needs to be repeated over and over and over again in these types of discussions.
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:04 PM   #10
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I realise that the finish line is wherever the judges decide it should be. Usually this is within the confines of the strip-camera photo of course. But usually if the judges want to call a dead heat they would use the ruler to show the horses are level?
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:16 PM   #11
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I realise that the finish line is wherever the judges decide it should be.
Huh?

The finish line is exactly where the finish line is...whoever installed the photo finish equipment usually installs it ON THE FINISH LINE...what do the judges have to do with it?

The photo they all look at IS THE FINISH LINE. You can't move anything.
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Old 10-16-2020, 08:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameegray1 View Post
I realise that the finish line is wherever the judges decide it should be. Usually this is within the confines of the strip-camera photo of course. But usually if the judges want to call a dead heat they would use the ruler to show the horses are level?
I don't think you're understanding how the system works. The judges don't figure out where the finish line is located. The whole photo is the finish line.

If you're old enough, you may remember early Xerox machines in which the light bar was stationary. When you hit the copy button, it actually moved the document over the stationary light bar.

That's the same idea as the photo finish camera. The camera looks at a very thin strip, pointed precisely along the finish line. It takes a picture of this very thin strip, over and over at a high frequency as the horses pass. It constructs a "photo" by laying each of these vertical strips side-by-side. The horizontal axis is time, not distance.

Google "photo-finish camera" and read the wikipedia article, particularly where it discusses strip photography.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photo_finish

Last edited by foregoforever; 10-16-2020 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 10-17-2020, 02:52 PM   #13
jameegray1
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Yes, sorry I meant where the ruler is placed. This is decided by the judges I assume?

How is this a dead heat when the ruler used by the judges to demonstrate a dead-heat shows the top horse ahead of the line and the bottom horse behind the line?

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Old 10-17-2020, 06:09 PM   #14
v j stauffer
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Originally Posted by foregoforever View Post
I don't think you're understanding how the system works. The judges don't figure out where the finish line is located. The whole photo is the finish line.

If you're old enough, you may remember early Xerox machines in which the light bar was stationary. When you hit the copy button, it actually moved the document over the stationary light bar.

That's the same idea as the photo finish camera. The camera looks at a very thin strip, pointed precisely along the finish line. It takes a picture of this very thin strip, over and over at a high frequency as the horses pass. It constructs a "photo" by laying each of these vertical strips side-by-side. The horizontal axis is time, not distance.

Google "photo-finish camera" and read the wikipedia article, particularly where it discusses strip photography.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photo_finish
Dead on Balls accurate. The theory being the camera cannot take a picture of a nose that isn't there. Excellent explanation.
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Old 10-17-2020, 07:27 PM   #15
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I agree with the original poster - it may be a few millimeters, but that photo finish picture clearly looks to me like the inside horse is ahead.



Maybe on the ultra high def original picture the stewards looked at there are some missing pixels of a nose we don't see here, but on this photo alone I am perplexed.


I think several people have jumped on Jameegray unnecessarily, I don't think they've accused the stewards of misdeeds or don't understand how the photo finish system works, I think the simple question is do other people look at this picture & see a dead heat? I do not.
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