Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 5.00 average.
Old 01-27-2010, 07:04 PM   #1
only11
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Tampa
Posts: 1,244
Horses changing leads..

Do horses only change leads in the stretch??Can they change leads around turns?Do they do it on there own?

And how important is it when it comes to capping the races/ how come i never see a trip note stating " the horse refuse to change leads"
only11 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-27-2010, 10:23 PM   #2
Linny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 429
Quote:
Originally Posted by only11
Do horses only change leads in the stretch??Can they change leads around turns?Do they do it on there own?

And how important is it when it comes to capping the races/ how come i never see a trip note stating " the horse refuse to change leads"

Horses should run the straightaways on the right lead and the turn on the left. They should swap leads as they start the turn and end it. It does require some coordination to do it and some horses find it hard to do when they are getting fatigued by the top of the stretch.
I follow NY and at Belmont you see alot of horses turning for home on the "wrong" (outside) lead. They can and do switch on the turn but at their peril. They are less balanced that way. It seems to happen alot at Belmont because the turn time is longer than at most tracks.
Horses can change leads on their own (they do it when turned out in a pasture, even as foals) but in a track setting they learn to do it when the rider shifts his/her weight sometimes accompanied by a slap on the shoulder and a tug on the rein. Sometimes they don't swap, even when asked and then you'll see the rider stop shuffling about and just keep riding, figuring that he'll swap eventually. Usually if they don't change leads it's because they are getting fatiqued and can't seem to figure out what to do with their legs.
Changing is important because it "refreshes" the horse, shifting the burden of pushing off to a different set of muscles. The human analogy that best fits is this: You are walking carrying a heavy bag. You carry it in the right hand because you are right handed. You feel fatigued and shift it to your left and get a (short but sweet) burst of energy because you are no longer carrying the burden with tired muscles.
Linny is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-27-2010, 10:26 PM   #3
Stillriledup
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
Horses usually race on one lead on the turn, and a different lead on the straightaways. If you watch a replay of a route race, horses will switch leads on the backstretch and then switch leads into the turn and then switch back in the stretch. Some horses don't know how to switch and some horses just don't switch because of heredity and the way their legs are built. There are very few horses in today's game that never switch leads.

I would say that this is not something to really worry about as most horses do switch leads when they are supposed to.
Stillriledup is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-27-2010, 10:29 PM   #4
tzipi
Registered User
 
tzipi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by only11
Do horses only change leads in the stretch??Can they change leads around turns?Do they do it on there own?

And how important is it when it comes to capping the races/ how come i never see a trip note stating " the horse refuse to change leads"

They switch their leads when they get tired on the front lead. Like we do with our arms when carrying something heavy.

Last edited by tzipi; 01-27-2010 at 10:31 PM.
tzipi is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-27-2010, 10:50 PM   #5
Robert Goren
Racing Form Detective
 
Robert Goren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
Most, but not all horses do it. The chartmaker doesn't every often because they don't what to look for. Not that it matters much, because if horse doesn't switch leads once it never does. There used be some old time horsemen who could sometimes figure out away to get them to do it. The only time I would worry about it is when a horse changes trainers. Maybe the new one has a trick up his sleeve, but probably not.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
Robert Goren is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-27-2010, 11:27 PM   #6
whodoyoulike
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,428
To Linny,

Thank you for your explanation. I've always heard about changing leads but didn't understand what was involved.
whodoyoulike is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-27-2010, 11:38 PM   #7
delayjf
Registered User
 
delayjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Norfolk VA
Posts: 6,246
If you want to see an outstanding slow mo of a horse changing leads, check out the final stretch run scene from the movie Seabiscuit at the movie's end. You can see the lead change very clearly.
delayjf is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-27-2010, 11:59 PM   #8
Steve 'StatMan'
Traded By Cubs
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: 2 miles north of Wrigley Field
Posts: 5,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by only11
And how important is it when it comes to capping the races/ how come i never see a trip note stating " the horse refuse to change leads"
For the charts, there are usually 2 people, one with their binoculars focusing on the order of the horses and their distance apart as they reach particular poles/points of call, and the other is quickly writing those down as the first caller tells them outloud as the race unfolds. Anything else they happen to see and note is a helpful bonus, secondary to that main purpose. Complicating things is that the caller is looking down almost straight down the stretch from the press box area or near the top of the granstand, and trying to judge distances between horses coming at him at a nearly-straight line, so quite hard to get the distance right - which probably takes more focus to make a decent judgement call, so the cadence of the legs, let alone watching a couple-three strides at the leg level is likely not an option for them, especially with fields of any decent size.

On the other hand, others (handicappers and/or private note makers) are free to watch the race without concern about the fractional call estimates, and have the luxury of reviewing the replays mulitple times to be satisfied in picking up what notes they care to make, whereas the chart callers have to get the photo finish picture and margins, the results & prices, and all that chart information, updated online within the 20 minute standard plus get ready for the next race.

Last edited by Steve 'StatMan'; 01-28-2010 at 12:01 AM.
Steve 'StatMan' is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-28-2010, 12:22 AM   #9
PhantomOnTour
C'est Tout
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cajunland
Posts: 13,253
Changing leads is not a requirement for winning, but it helps IMO. Some horses never change leads and still win though.

Wasnt Affirmed or Alydar a non changer? May not be one of them, but I'm sure it was a famous horse (or two). Someone out there knows.

I pay attention to first time starters who run well but come up a little short while failing to change leads. If they do so next time that may be all they need to get up.

My question on the subject is this:
Do trainers worry about and try to correct horses who dont switch? I see jocks trying to get horses to switch all the time in the lane. Some are 'aided' by getting into trouble or bumping and they switch leads as a result. I have seen horse hanging and then a rival bumps them, forcing a lead change, and then they go on to win.
__________________
How do I work this?
-David Byrne
PhantomOnTour is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-28-2010, 01:16 AM   #10
Spalding No!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,046
Alydar was the horse that oftened failed to change leads in the stretch.

One thing not brought up is that failing to switch leads or, perhaps even more so, switching back to the left lead in the stretch is often a sign of unsoundness.

In addition, a lot of acute injuries (catastrophic or otherwise) occur at the time of a lead change.

It is not necessarily always an issue of greeness.
Spalding No! is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-28-2010, 03:06 AM   #11
Stillriledup
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomOnTour
Changing leads is not a requirement for winning, but it helps IMO. Some horses never change leads and still win though.

Wasnt Affirmed or Alydar a non changer? May not be one of them, but I'm sure it was a famous horse (or two). Someone out there knows.

I pay attention to first time starters who run well but come up a little short while failing to change leads. If they do so next time that may be all they need to get up.

My question on the subject is this:
Do trainers worry about and try to correct horses who dont switch? I see jocks trying to get horses to switch all the time in the lane. Some are 'aided' by getting into trouble or bumping and they switch leads as a result. I have seen horse hanging and then a rival bumps them, forcing a lead change, and then they go on to win.

Alydar didn't switch and he seemed to pass that onto his offspring. When Strike The Gold (By Alydar) won the Derby, he didn't switch leads until very late in the stretch.
Stillriledup is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-28-2010, 04:01 PM   #12
joanied
Registered User
 
joanied's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wyoming, near Yellowstone Park...born/raised in Brooklyn,NY
Posts: 7,557
WOW...I was gonna jump in here...but I see I don't need to...great replies for only11
__________________
joanied

"All we have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to us"
Gandalf the Grey
joanied is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-28-2010, 05:08 PM   #13
wisconsin
Registered User
 
wisconsin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mukwonago, WI
Posts: 3,196
You'll see it now that you know what to look for. It's subtle, but you'll see a light stutter step right at the lead change, followed by acceleration. Horses get challenged in the strech, and then draw off, usually right after the lead change. Same with closers, they move on even terms and then change leads and blow right by.

There are some very astute announcers who will say when a horse is on the wrong lead or refuses to switch in the stretch.
__________________
"I don't always frequent message boards, but when I do, I prefer PaceAdvantage."
wisconsin is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-28-2010, 10:10 PM   #14
Linny
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 429
It is effectively a "skip" step when the horse swaps. His forelegs appear to be striding in a "right-LEFT pattern and then switch to "LEFT-right."
I don't like to see alot of lead changes in the stretch. It means the horse is very fatigued or feeling some discomfort that he's trying to ease.
Linny is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 01-28-2010, 10:16 PM   #15
swale84
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomOnTour
My question on the subject is this:
Do trainers worry about and try to correct horses who dont switch? I see jocks trying to get horses to switch all the time in the lane. Some are 'aided' by getting into trouble or bumping and they switch leads as a result. I have seen horse hanging and then a rival bumps them, forcing a lead change, and then they go on to win.

Sometimes when a horse who is adept at changing leads all of a sudden won't change them during a race or training, a trainer will look for something that might be bothering the horse physically...suspensory or something. Young horses who run green, yes they will work with the horse during the mornings to get him to change leads.
swale84 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply

Tags
changing leads




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.