any winners

[kenwoodallpromos]

Just think of this website as the Land of OZ: very colorful; animated; things to put you to sleep; and if you claim to win at this game a house will fall on you!LOL!!

[Tom]

I'm working on my second million at the track.

I gave up on the first one.

[Dave Schwartz]

Twin,

We'll be selling the house next year, going get me a nice sports car, a 20 year old...

Have you told your wife about the 20-year old? And have you found a trainer yet?

Oh, wait. I thought you said two-year old.

<G>

[rrpic6]

[QUOTE=Valuist]I'm not going to sit here and say I believe this guy or that he's a liar. I have known a few professional horseplayers so I know it can be done. However, there did seem to be several possible red flags. Let's take another look:

1. As quoted earlier, the exactness of the profit number. I suppose this wouldn't be a huge stretch, if the person is really anal. There's others on here who are ahead for the year but could any of us say to the exact dollar? Yeah, if I looked it up on Excel but I certainly couldn't quote it off the top of my head.

If you use a website such as Winticket.com, you can search your Personal Wagering Account History. It even will break up each type of wager made and your bottom line and ROI. For example I am -$468.20 for Pick 6 wagers made there. My ROI is -0.15. So I have beaten the takeout. I should call myself anal for knowing this?? Think again....the MAN (IRS) is watching!!

[oexplayer68]

Wow, I never anticipated such a response on this thread. As stated before, my only reason for posting this is that the few of you who have toyed with the idea of playing the races professionally could maybe see that it isn’t out of the realm of possibilities. For those of you who thought I was boasting I’m sorry; however to me the numbers are very important to point out, as I’m sure we all have different levels of income we need to survive on.



Now, it’s certainly not easy, and I wouldn’t think too many people would be successful. For me, this has been a long battle going back almost 20 years. Trust me, I have definitely paid my dues in a big way, and it’s just in the past few months that it’s all come together. I tried this in 2001-2002, and was basically flat for about a year’s time. At this point I really kind of gave up, until the rebates came around. When I say this game has literally broken me in the past, that’s an understatement. I won’t go into the details, as that’s really not important any more. However, when this is your only source of income, the stakes change in a big way.



I certainly don’t have an agenda here, and won’t be selling any books, tout sheets, or revealing any of my strategies for obvious reasons. I don’t post often because I really don’t have much to add. Sorry, but bitching about TVG and NYRA just doesn’t do it for me. Most of you don’t care about my results or and I fully understand that. For any of you that do just know that my only message in all this is YOU CAN MAKE A GREAT LIVING PLAYING THE RACES.



I’m going to address some of your questions, and then go back to my gig. I will say that not one thing I have stated or will state is untrue. I certainly have the records to back all this up, but really feel no need to substantiate anything because that’s a no-win situation for me.



Take it to heart when I say horse-racing is a very predictable game, and that there are obvious ways to profit from this. Many of you already do, and good for you. For those of you that don’t, go back and look at why horses typically win. Will you win every time, of course not? Will some of these horses be 2-5 of course? The 80/20 rule applies to many things in life, most especially horse racing.



I wish all of you success either way. Maybe I’ll have something of substance to add in the future. I could certainly write a good novel of what not to do based on my past experiences. Hopefully some of you will experience success beyond my modest accomplishment this year.



Twindouble: Well I guess we are both throwbacks. Personally, I could just never get it through my mind that a computer could process things like my mind could. It’s difficult for me to see how a computer/system can see a inside speed horse that gets shuffled because he didn’t break sharp, or an outside horse in a route that gets hung in the five-path around the first turn. Of course there are many other scenarios that are “between the lines”. I definitely don’t have a problem stating that I am not sharp enough to be able to integrate these factors into a software package. Best of luck to you!



DrugSalvastore: I certainly understand your skepticism. You are right; this game is definitely not easy to beat. That said, there are certainly people out there that do it, and do it consistently. My learning curve is almost 20 years, and it’s just recently that I’ve been able to achieve for me what is great success. I can tell you that I am a net-loser since I began playing the races, and have no problem admitting it. I can also tell you that my results now are no fluke, and unless there is a major change to the gambling rules in this country, I will not ever have to work again. As improbable as this seems, and I’m sure you will view it this way, it’s a fact.



PaceAdvantage: Thank you for your vote of confidence! I am in no way trying to brag. I’m sure there are many folks out there who do much better than any of us at this game. A lot of us have a tendency to not want to believe that sometimes. Great site!



Light: Love the woman analogy! I also left off the change for your convenience<G>



Dave Schwartz: I appreciate your kind words, and congratulations to you on what sounds like a terrific 2005. Keep up the great work next year!



Niko: Definitely make the jump off-shore. You will be amazed at the power of rebates, and not having your wagers placed in the pools. It will be difficult to detect my wagers being layed off, unless a trifecta pays ALL in the third slot, which as you know doesn’t happen much. It will be a concern when it happens though, as I figure my ROI drops a few points for sure. Yes, I play only exactas and trifectas now. It’s usually around 80/20….remember the Pareto principle. Playing every race seems very odd I’m sure, but it works for me, as I never know exactly which race will produce the box-car payoffs. Good luck to you next year!



Kenwoodallpromos: You make a really good point about being open-minded. We all know the cards are against us in a big way, but with hard work and an open mind, it is possible to achieve some level of success at this game. Here’s to your continued success!



Fmhealth: I’m impressed you were able to decipher my handle. Yes, I did exclusively trade the S&P 100 for a number of years; however I never had the success you did. The breakage, along with some pretty weak-knees always had me scalping too soon, and missing out on the big moves. To answer your question about a wager that has helped me this year, it is no doubt the exacta. The way I play, there is definitely something to be said about a higher strike rate and the avoidance of long run-outs. As I’m sure you’ll agree, figuring out who’s going to run third or fourth is a lot harder than the top two slots.



The little guy: I’m sorry if you thought I was boasting. Believe me, there is a fine line in all that. Now if I told you that I lost about 30K between 2000-2004, I don’t guess that would be viewed as boasting. Anyway, you are right about the rebates helping a lot. They haven’t really comprised the bulk of my profits though. When I first quit my job, I viewed the rebates as a sort of safety net. They certainly help to cushion a bad day. Interestingly enough, I have found that the higher my rebates are, the worse I seem to do. Go figure.



BigRed: That’s awesome stuff. There is something to be said about “scared money” huh? Ever think of doing this full-time?



Valuist: As previously stated, I can certainly understand how someone could be skeptical of my results, or anyone else stating to make big money at the track. I’ll say it again though, I have no reason to fabricate my results, and definitely have no agenda here or anything to prove. Now, to answer your questions, yes I keep an excel spreadsheet that I update daily with results. It calculates daily, weekly, and monthly numbers for me. I used to be in the previous camp of not calculating results at all. I felt it was important to change this losing behavior, and I now devote a lot of time to analyzing my results quite often. I know now how I stand after every race and obviously at the end of the day as well.



With regards to me not playing off-shore before, you need to understand that I’d had a corporate job the past few years (so I didn’t really play enough to justify it), and had also never won consistently before which is perhaps the bigger factor. Now, since I had only played with BRIS for the past few years, it was easy to go back and see my results for any particular bet-type or track. What I found was several areas where I showed a return of between 5-10%, and this was certainly not obtained from a small sample. As stated before, the rebates were the wild card in my opinion….a sort of cushion in case my result deviated a bit.



Regarding the amount I wager, it’s really not hard to get to 100K per month if you bet between 200-400 per race, and bet every race on the card. I also rarely take a day off. I glanced at my spreadsheet, and see only 2 days between August and today that I haven’t made a wager. Since I’ve been winning, I haven’t quite reached the 100K amount yet. Again, this was just part of my business plan, and not anything that was set in stone.



We’ll I’ll be the first to say I would have never thought anyone could win 19 weeks in a row. There have been times in the past when I didn’t feel like I could pick the show-horse in a three-horse race. After a few weeks, I kept thinking to myself that it would be ending soon like always, but it hasn’t. In fact, my results are really improving, as I am now more certain than ever of my niche. Without a doubt it will come to an end at some point. If the chalk starts rolling in for more than a couple of days then I’ll be in trouble. I’ll take your baseball analogy as a compliment, since I know the truth lies within.



Sjk: I wish I had done a better job keeping records over the years. Brisbet put in something that did this automatically a few years ago. Of course the casinos really don’t do this on a longer-term scale, so you really have to do it yourself. I have toyed with detailing results based on different categories. Do you do anything like this? I know for a fact that I do not excel in turf races, but couldn’t tell you how much I’ve won or lost this year in that category. As much as I enjoy the challenge of horse racing, I am on the other end of the spectrum when it comes to computer stuff/record-keeping.



Turfruler: Like your handle, but am envious if you really are. I am really serious when I say I hope you can turn the corner in this game if that’s what you really want. There are certainly ways to do it, although not for everyone. It seems like being stubborn is a lot of it, as there certainly a lot better options for most folks. Best of luck!



McShellRacing: My thanks for your kind words. I am certainly very “passionate” about this game, as you are. I guess one regret that I have is that my money no longer flows into the pools to support people like you, who put the show on. That said, it’s a huge advantage for me, yet does leave a little bit of a bad taste. Hope you have an awesome 2006 with your business!



Rrpic6: Yes, I do keep detailed records of my daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly profits. I used to be in the camp who didn’t do this, but this is now a business for me, and it’s something I must do no matter what. I think one of the reasons I’ve done so well is that I know have these numbers at my disposal, and really focus on them constantly.



As well, I am a loyal BRIS customer, and have been for sometime. A lot of the reason I decided to pursue this was because I was able to see my ROI and results with just a couple of clicks. Pretty cool stuff for sure, however it’s would be way over my head to create something like this now, even though I would love to have it. Maybe the offshore places will integrate this? Somehow I kind of doubt it.

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Twin,



Have you told your wife about the 20-year old? And have you found a trainer yet?

Oh, wait. I thought you said two-year old.

<G>

Well for a while I was going through my after mid life change, all pumped up, woke up each morning singing a song, couldn't wait to get out the door to look at a couple farms in NY all excited thinking it will finely happen. My son's idea, not mine but it was always on the back of my mind to own horses. I think anyone who loves this game thinks about it owning. I was not to be for many reasons, the biggest one was the amount of capital needed, land was to expencive.

So, I'm stuck doing what I do, playing the horses making a score here and there, filling the void here thinking I'll make some kind of connection be it nostalgic or real. Weather you want to except it or not, there's a degree of passion that's part of handicapping and wagering on the horses, that's another reason why we are here or at the track. It isn't all about making money, being the best handicapper, the loudest or the smartest, but without that passion you miss the true essence of handicapping and wagering on the horses. You've heard the expression, "I've got the feel for this game." That can be any game. That's the only way I can explain it.


Good luck,

T.D.

[DrugSalvastore]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

DrugS wants proof? What kind of proof would ever satisfy you, save for going to his house and hanging with him for a week or two complete with some forensic accounting exercises? Nothing less will ever convince you, and you know it....so stop the silliness.

PA, I never asked for any proof!

The last thing I'd want to see is some guy trying to prove that.

I guess the other guy from Tampa (who's "up over $1,000,000.00 this year") said he was all about sending his tax information out to everyone. FWIW, I know of a guy named T-Bone, who signs at 10% for people who hit big ones. If he was literate and felt the need--I bet he could convince a few of you guys he was having a nice year.

I just would like to see a poster---write something helpful or impressive regarding handicapping or even the sport of horse racing---for someone who can generate profits for 19 straight weeks and make a six-figure yearly profit through sustained dominance---that should be a piece of cake!!!

This poster seems like a nice friendly guy (which is rarely said about me!) and mainly the only thing he talks about is his opinion of different internet betting outlets (not that there is anything wrong with that!) Here's what I know....

In his most recent post, he ends by saying....
"As well, I am a loyal BRIS customer, and have been for sometime."

Three posts ago he wrote....
"I do this for a living, day in and day out, and there is no way I could ever make the money I do with BRIS, Youbet, ect."

That proves nothing---other than the fact that he might not know the true meaning of the word loyal. Although, he did start a thread about a giant 'BRIS constructed' Pick 6 ticket he got in with---that went up in smoke.

I see he did write that the vast majority of the races he bets are run at small tracks. I'll just be happy if the guy starts a thread on the advantages of playing small tracks as opposed to bigger tracks. I like reading anyones opinions on topics like that. I think that's far more interesting than telling people you're up $162,201.00 for the year.

[Bobby]

Im a break even player.

I agree with BIG RED I was VERY profitable when I didn't care. However, I care more now, trying to learn the intricacies of the game. ITs hard.

19 weeks in a a row is pretty astounding in my way of thinking.

[NoDayJob]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Okay, a little more...

Someone asked me a few months ago what the most important thing most players need to win. My answer was "belief that it can be done and that they can do it."

Belief is very tough to get because you have to win to have belief and you have to believe to win. So, how do you do it?

I am deadly serious when I tell you that you piggy-back on someone else's belief. You find a role model - somebody that you believe is a winning player - and you listen to them. If possible, you spend physical time with them.

So, find a mentor. Make an imaginery one if you have to. One way or another you've got to get some belief.

And if belief is tough because it just never seems to work, consider changing what you are doing. Most players that have been playing (and losing) for 30 years do not have 30 years of experience. They have one year of experience, thirty times.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Copy this, enlarge it and paste on the mirror that you use to shave with every morning. READ IT, MEMORIZE IT, BELIEVE IT, because it's the truth.

[DrugSalvastore]

Originally Posted by NoDayJob

Copy this, enlarge it and paste on the mirror that you use to shave with every morning. READ IT, MEMORIZE IT, BELIEVE IT, because it's the truth.

Kick me in the balls if I'm wrong---but I believe the biggest problem most unsuccessful bettors have is not lack of "belief"---rather, it is their own individual bad habits they flaunt when handicapping and betting.

Here are three basic things from a 'capping standpoint:

* They don't spend enough time and energy handicapping a race. Instead, they breeze quickly over horses who don't look competitive at first glance--and many times they wrap themselves up in factors that won't strongly impact the outcome of a race....like..

* Jockey & Trainer: I don't mind seeing a positive rider switch and I really like to see a "style-fitting jockey switch"--but, if a horse has established his form with Jerry Bailey riding him...why on Earth would people lean to this horse because Bailey is riding? Same thing with trainers! It's a positive when Dutrow takes over a horse from a low percentage underachieving trainer. But, when a horse has run seven straight times for Dutrow--his form's been established and the fact that Durtrow is his trainer means nothing...but people will lean to the horse because of the "Dutrow factor." Scott Lake is a very ordinary trainer with distance horses--but people still bet those type of horses like Lake is certain to move them way up--and it very rarely happens. I can go on and on.

* They don't make trip notes or even watch previous races closely: A lot of valuable information can be gained simply by watching races. I've beat this to death before---but, I just think people have to watch races and make notes, either in their head or in a spiral notebook.

Here are three basic things from a Betting Standpoint:

* They chase when they are losing and bet overly conservative when they are winning. This is a bad habit I had to deal with when I first started betting. A real surprising number of people never overcome this. When things aren't going right, at their own expense, people will franticly try to formulate a way to recoup betting losses and turn things around. Yet, a lot of times when the same player is winning--he will be in an overly thankful mood--and not bet races with the level of zest that he should. The key is to attack them when you're hot---and back off and try to regroup a little when you are cold.

* They spread and baseball their bets all-over the place, and don't bet as aggressively and precisely as they should when they have a strong opinion on a race.

* They don't lay off underlaid horses simply because they are the most likely winner of the race. I've noticed a shocking number of decent handicappers who have a hard time laying off of clear-cut favorites---who are legit most likely winners, but don't deserve a dime of money in the win pool at very short odds. why this is---I'll never know!

I know that I should just shut up and soak up everything I can from the real winners here---the guys who are winning 19 weeks in a row and the guys who are making over $1,000,000.00 a year betting horses. Sadly, I have a horrible flaw in that I feel I need to give my opinion out on stuff like this.

[keilan]

Originally Posted by DrugSalvastore

Kick me in the balls if I'm wrong---but I believe the biggest problem most unsuccessful bettors have is not lack of "belief"---rather, it is their own individual bad habits they flaunt when handicapping and betting.

Here are three basic things from a 'capping standpoint:

* They don't spend enough time and energy handicapping a race. Instead, they breeze quickly over horses who don't look competitive at first glance--and many times they wrap themselves up in factors that won't strongly impact the outcome of a race....like..

* Jockey & Trainer: I don't mind seeing a positive rider switch and I really like to see a "style-fitting jockey switch"--but, if a horse has established his form with Jerry Bailey riding him...why on Earth would people lean to this horse because Bailey is riding? Same thing with trainers! It's a positive when Dutrow takes over a horse from a low percentage underachieving trainer. But, when a horse has run seven straight times for Dutrow--his form's been established and the fact that Durtrow is his trainer means nothing...but people will lean to the horse because of the "Dutrow factor." Scott Lake is a very ordinary trainer with distance horses--but people still bet those type of horses like Lake is certain to move them way up--and it very rarely happens. I can go on and on.

* They don't make trip notes or even watch previous races closely: A lot of valuable information can be gained simply by watching races. I've beat this to death before---but, I just think people have to watch races and make notes, either in their head or in a spiral notebook.

Here are three basic things from a Betting Standpoint:

* They chase when they are losing and bet overly conservative when they are winning. This is a bad habit I had to deal with when I first started betting. A real surprising number of people never overcome this. When things aren't going right, at their own expense, people will franticly try to formulate a way to recoup betting losses and turn things around. Yet, a lot of times when the same player is winning--he will be in an overly thankful mood--and not bet races with the level of zest that he should. The key is to attack them when you're hot---and back off and try to regroup a little when you are cold.

* They spread and baseball their bets all-over the place, and don't bet as aggressively and precisely as they should when they have a strong opinion on a race.

* They don't lay off underlaid horses simply because they are the most likely winner of the race. I've noticed a shocking number of decent handicappers who have a hard time laying off of clear-cut favorites---who are legit most likely winners, but don't deserve a dime of money in the win pool at very short odds. why this is---I'll never know!

I know that I should just shut up and soak up everything I can from the real winners here---the guys who are winning 19 weeks in a row and the guys who are making over $1,000,000.00 a year betting horses. Sadly, I have a horrible flaw in that I feel I need to give my opinion out on stuff like this.

Copy this, enlarge it and paste on the mirror that you use to shave with every morning. READ IT, MEMORIZE IT, BELIEVE IT, because it's the truth.

[sjk]

Oexplayer68,

In answer to the question you asked me about record-keeping, I use the computer to calculate my bets for me as long as I am at home (which is 95% of the time) when playing. When I actually make the bets I mark them "y" and they are recorded in a table of bets made.

It is a simple matter to run a query to view results by month, track, distance, condition type, etc.

I need to use a piece of paper to keep up with my overall results because I do get out to the track from time to time. That way all total dollar wins/losses are recorded in one place regardless of the venue.

[Niko]

DrugSalvastore:
In his most recent post, he ends by saying....
"As well, I am a loyal BRIS customer, and have been for sometime."

Three posts ago he wrote....
"I do this for a living, day in and day out, and there is no way I could ever make the money I do with BRIS, Youbet, ect."

My guesses. Your winnings per race are limited offshore, not all tracks are covered offshore, video isn't available off shore, free PP's with Bris....

Gives enough reason to keep a Bris account going at the same time. Going from memory which is really crappy I believe CJ may still use Bris and Pinny as I'm sure others do as well.

I like your thoroughness in evaluating the post though and your points on handicapping are very valid in my little world.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Niko

Gives enough reason to keep a Bris account going at the same time. Going from memory which is really crappy I believe CJ may still use Bris and Pinny as I'm sure others do as well.

I use BRIS just enough to continue to get video, no TVG in Belgium.

On an unrelated not, someone had mentioned you couldn't bet Tampa at Pinnacle in one of these threads, but this year, you can.

[Fastracehorse]

My favorite posts are about handicapping theory.

This isn't really un-related I just didn't feel like expanding at this time.

Have a Great Holiday Season everyone.

I've been eating too many Khalua chocolates and it's still 12 days to Christmas - luv those things - don't try 'em if you haven't already - especially if you have an addictive personality

fffastt