any winners

[orlando]

Gentlemen of the board please answer gross profit ROI for the year?

5k-10k

11k-20k

21k-30k

31k-40k

41k-50k

50k-75k

75k-up

[oexplayer68]

I'm posting this for the benefit of anyone who doesn't think you can make a good living from playing the races. 2005 has proved to be a breakout year for me. To date, I have made $168,201 playing the races, and most of this has come since July when I quit my insurance job. This is not from one lucky score, or me being a "whale", because I am definitely not. Rather, a pretty consisten ROI in the low 20's, and of course the rebates have led to these profits.

With the advent of rebates, I was pretty certain I could at least break even, and grind out a profit with the rebates. My business plan called for 100K per month in total wagering, which would result in 7K in rebates. Prior to August, I had never wagered offshore, and thus was never a beneficiary of rebates or non-pooled wagers. The most powerful factor for me so far has been the fact that my wagers have not been co-mingled into the pools. It became quite obvious early on that I underestimated this in a big way. If your success depends on large exotic payoffs, this is factor alone is a huge advantage.

What is particulary gratifying is that no one had any faith that I could make a viable income from the races. Every single person I talked to, even my own mother, thought I was nuts, and would tap out sooner rather than later. There is no doubt this is the toughest game in the world to beat, but it certainly can be done, and in a big way.

I've profited every week and month since August. I also play every single race, at the track I play that day. Also, I have not made one win,place, or show wager.....which is also against conventional wisdom, or so they say. No computer stuff either, just reading the form the old-fashioned way.

So take it from me guys, making good money at the track is definitely not a pipedream. I've always wanted to be in the camp that could be this game consistently. My only hope is that the great opportunities that the internet has created (offshore wagering, rebates, ect.) do not disappear anytime soon.

I'm sure some of you will be skeptical, and that's totally fine by me. I don't have much of an ego, and debated whether to even post this. My rational behind this message is simply to say that it can be done. I myself would have had much doubt a few years ago, but I know now that it definitely is possible to make tremendous profits in this game.

Best of luck to everyone in 2006!

[twindouble]

Originally Posted by oexplayer68

I'm posting this for the benefit of anyone who doesn't think you can make a good living from playing the races. 2005 has proved to be a breakout year for me. To date, I have made $168,201 playing the races, and most of this has come since July when I quit my insurance job. This is not from one lucky score, or me being a "whale", because I am definitely not. Rather, a pretty consisten ROI in the low 20's, and of course the rebates have led to these profits.

With the advent of rebates, I was pretty certain I could at least break even, and grind out a profit with the rebates. My business plan called for 100K per month in total wagering, which would result in 7K in rebates. Prior to August, I had never wagered offshore, and thus was never a beneficiary of rebates or non-pooled wagers. The most powerful factor for me so far has been the fact that my wagers have not been co-mingled into the pools. It became quite obvious early on that I underestimated this in a big way. If your success depends on large exotic payoffs, this is factor alone is a huge advantage.

What is particulary gratifying is that no one had any faith that I could make a viable income from the races. Every single person I talked to, even my own mother, thought I was nuts, and would tap out sooner rather than later. There is no doubt this is the toughest game in the world to beat, but it certainly can be done, and in a big way.

I've profited every week and month since August. I also play every single race, at the track I play that day. Also, I have not made one win,place, or show wager.....which is also against conventional wisdom, or so they say. No computer stuff either, just reading the form the old-fashioned way.

So take it from me guys, making good money at the track is definitely not a pipedream. I've always wanted to be in the camp that could be this game consistently. My only hope is that the great opportunities that the internet has created (offshore wagering, rebates, ect.) do not disappear anytime soon.

I'm sure some of you will be skeptical, and that's totally fine by me. I don't have much of an ego, and debated whether to even post this. My rational behind this message is simply to say that it can be done. I myself would have had much doubt a few years ago, but I know now that it definitely is possible to make tremendous profits in this game.

Best of luck to everyone in 2006!

That 4th pargarph was music to my ears, you don't know what it means to me to hear from others that just relies on the DRF like I do. I have yet to take advantage of the rebates, been thinking about it but I still do just fine with out it. Nice to meet you oexplayer68 and continued success. It's late here, bed time. Looking forward to more posts from you.

T.D.

[DrugSalvastore]

Originally Posted by oexplayer68

I'm posting this for the benefit of anyone who doesn't think you can make a good living from playing the races. 2005 has proved to be a breakout year for me. To date, I have made $168,201 playing the races, and most of this has come since July when I quit my insurance job.

I've missed some real interesting stuff lately......

In real life---the takeout rate in thoroughbred horse racing ranges from 14.5%-to-30%....BUT, judging from the stuff I read on the internet---YOU WOULD THINK that there is a 20% GIVEOUT instead of takeout.

I read recentley about a guy---who claims to have made over $1,000,000.00 this year--and he says he did it with no rebate at all--and he says he spends just 30 minutes a day handicapping!

The guy above---he quits a job selling insurance in mid-year--and he's up "$168,201.00" this year!

I've very recently lost a friendship I had with a once prominent New Jersey horse owner---simply because I got tired of listening to his nonsense, about how he was up over $120K this year--and I started to mock him about his redboarding, and tease him for the lies he was telling me.

I have a pretty big bankroll I've built up, I am an incredibly versatile and skilled all-around player, and I devout insanely large chunks of time to this game---and I'm barely making a decent living doing this.

I'm seriously bothered when I hear people talk about this game--as though it is easy to beat.

I've been around bettors long enough to know--that they all pretty much lie about the success they are having. I've lied before myself...I can think of more than one time I had a horrible day betting, and when asked how I did, I simply replied "I'm about even" and changed the subject as fast as I could. I can think of many times when I've "sand-bagged" people, and told them I didn't make much of anything on days when I had big scores. You "sand-bag" people who you are affraid might try to get a loan off of you--and also people who might get upset if I told them I had a score on a horse, and I didn't mention that I liked the horse to them beforehand.

I'm just saying---this game is not the 'easy-to-beat' picnic that some make it out to be. I'm sorry if people disagree with that--but, I've found it be a bitter struggle--and even when you've achieved success and profitabilty---it seems to be so painfully tenuous!

[Dave Schwartz]

I will be very understated on this subject except to say that this has been the most profitable year I have ever had and next year figures to be a couple of magnitudes better.

I personally have knowledge of two million-dollar plus winners, one whom frequents this board (and does not use my software, so do not mistake this for a commercial).

Posts like the couple already seen in this thread should encourage others to believe that it can be done. Nobody is saying it is easy, but it can be done.

Not to belabor the Steve-thread issue, but that was a classic example of why the doers are not typically posters. Why would anyone in their right mind subject themselves to criticism and accusations just for the priviledge of trying to share what they know?

OexPlayer, congratulations on a fantastic year in your new career.


regards to all,
Dave Schwartz

[DrugSalvastore]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

I personally have knowledge of two million-dollar plus winners, one whom frequents this board (and does not use my software, so do not mistake this for a commercial).

Posts like the couple already seen in this thread should encourage others to believe that it can be done. Nobody is saying it is easy, but it can be done.

Not to belabor the Steve-thread issue, but that was a classic example of why the doers are not typically posters. Why would anyone in their right mind subject themselves to criticism and accusations just for the priviledge of trying to share what they know?

Yea--it's real encouraging to me!! If I actually believed there was an outside shot of this stuff being true----I'd be strongly encouraged to quit....and do something else.

It's a sad reality--that it's much easier to make a giant profit by selling a handicapping product or touting---than it is to actually make that profit gambling through the windows. And I've always believed that individuals who go that way---want people to believe that extremely LARGE sums of money can be made with routine ease through the betting windows. That's not a knock on them though---I think they want to believe more than anyone that such success is very attainable.

I'm sorry if I'm doing anything to spoil this romantic vision people have---of a sea of great handicappers out there who are living a life of comfortable wealth based solely on gambling revenue won at the track.

In most cases---the people in question have already established their wealth doing other things...just my 0.02 cents on that.

[PaceAdvantage]

DRUGS,

What possible motive would oexplayer have in lying to us about the money he has made this year? We don't know him, and he don't know us....he has no reason to make this stuff up....he's been a member since August and has only posted 22 times....it's not like he's a dominant player on here like you or I.

Face it dude, there are people out there more talented than you or I. This happens in ALL walks of life. More talented, and more willing to do the work that needs to be done. There is ALWAYS going to be someone better than you.

There is no reason in the world why I should doubt what he says. Just because you haven't done it yet, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Believe it or not, I think you're dead wrong here....I know it must be incredibly difficult to swallow that reality, but you should get used to it....

[Light]

I think every horseplayers dream is to make a living at the track. So when Steve or Oexplayer68 comes on this board and claims to do so,it hits a nerve. Then everybody wants to know if they are lying or to tell us their secret. How those who claim to be earning a living come across makes a big difference to their audience. Sort of like picking up chicks. Come on too strong initially and you will get slapped in the face. Oexplayer68 comes accross much more low keyed than Steve.

[Dave Schwartz]

Drugs,

So, if someone is a losing player then that is okay, but all the winners are lying?

You can, of course, believe what you want. But one must ask, why do you even bother to post here if you feel that way?

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Niko]

Oex,
Congratulations on your breakthrough. And doing it the hard way, reading the form only.
There's always someone that will try to knock you down and few more that will jump on the bandwagon with them. I'm always skeptical but no reason to doubt what you say. Do you really on triples, exactas, supers? Playing every race has to be very tough unless you're playing rolling bets?

I haven't made the switch to off-shore yet but from what I've heard others say on the board is that when you become a big net-winner (like yourself) they start laying off in the pari-mutual pools. Are you starting to see any signs of this or are you concerned?

One of my plans was to go to Pinnacle in 06

[Niko]

Dave,

You've had some excellent tutilege by Schmidt and other succesful players. What helped you turn the corner this year and make you so confident for next year? Betting strategy, new handicapping approach?

My questions comes because I've had my most succesful this year but have also endured my worst losing streak this year. Now I have to re-evaluate my approach.

[Dave Schwartz]

One word: Rebates.

[kenwoodallpromos]

DrugS, where did anybody in this thread say profiting was easy? Show me!
If all you have is a negative attitude and a mistakenly slanted view along with not being able to understand what is written or read into something what is not there, I'm not surprised you are not posting about winning!
If bettors hear only what they want to hear, most likely it will be untrue and perpetuated by those who do not do the work to verify.
I know that from personal experience since my brother has been losing every year, month for over 30 years.
He asked me to help him study the form and argued about everything I said and thought and never bet my pick- he kept right on losing by believing all the BS put out that do not hold up by the numbers. He thinks he knows it all and was even going to put out a stupid book about how to bet chalk allowance horses.
The point is, You can sit and put down anyone on this board who has ideas and claims to win or you can follow those gurus who put out books and information and say every angle or method you buy from them works for every race and lose your shirt!
I have only been handicapping like 7 years but I do more research than almost anyone on this board and study the probabilities.
I have spend about 2 years off and on creating, testing, and learning when to use each various method. I have barley been able to use my track speed system this year because my tracks are running slower. But I have created systems for varied races and circumstances. No it is not easy.
My only easy picks or bets are the ones my handicapping experience tells me are obvious to me but very few others see it or utilize it. Once in a while.

[Dave Schwartz]

Okay, a little more...


In the late '80s I "made a living" at the races. Okay, so it wasn't a very good living. In the racebook at 6:30am and home at 10:30pm after Longacres finished. Never had a bankroll of any significance and once a month my wife would "blow the bankroll on the rent."

When I went to selling software my goals changed. Foremost was the software and company. Wagering became unimportant. For all intents and purposes I became a "recreational" player.

Now that has changed.


Someone asked me a few months ago what the most important thing most players need to win. My answer was "belief that it can be done and that they can do it."

Belief is very tough to get because you have to win to have belief and you have to believe to win. So, how do you do it?

I am deadly serious when I tell you that you piggy-back on someone else's belief. You find a role model - somebody that you believe is a winning player - and you listen to them. If possible, you spend physical time with them.

I was very fortunate in the last 18 months to have come into contact with two very successful human beings. One is a multi-million dollar winner at the races and the other is a man with a near-7-figure income in the business world.

Simply put, just like my past experiences with Dick Schmidt, being around these men raised my expectactions.

See, men like that - men who are winners in life - have a different viewpoint than us mortals do. I recall having dinner with the business success I mentioned above. He told me that he was planning on retiring in 2005. All he wanted to do was drive his race car every other week (it relaxes him?) and play the races every day. He said that he did not need to make much money at the races; that if he only made $100k that would justify his time. (Note that he made about $40k in his best, recent year.)

When he said that I looked him in the eye to do the veracity test. He passed.

Yup. I learned a lot from this guy and even more from the "doer" I mentioned. He simply does it and will not be denied in anything he attempts.

Dick Schmidt and I have played together perhaps 10 racing days, ever, counting web play together. Do you know that I have never had a single losing day in his presence? Being around someone like that simply lifts you to new levels.

The downside to Dick is that he has a bit of the Midas touch - everything he does seems to work so well for him. Since I cannot identify with that (wish I could) it is hard for me to learn more than "it can be done." Yet it still raises me to new levels.


So, find a mentor. Make an imaginery one if you have to. One way or another you've got to get some belief.

And if belief is tough because it just never seems to work, consider changing what you are doing. Most players that have been playing (and losing) for 30 years do not have 30 years of experience. They have one year of experience, thirty times.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[fmhealth]

CONGRATULATIONS Mr OEX!! By your screen name I take it that you were also an active options trader. Which I personally feel is far easier & more profitable than being a horseplayer. My results, 47 consecutive losing years at the track, 30%+ ROI yearly from the Options mkt(mostly selling Puts). For Put sellers on this board, you may want to look at the GDT Jan 65s at $1.20.

I just have one simple question for you. What is the primary type of wager that has helped you catapult into the rarified air of a major winner? I'm assuming it's per's &/or Tri's, but if possible I'd appreciate your confirmation.

In any event, continued success & best of health in the New Year.