a theory: the foul was deliberate

[woodbinepmi]

Originally Posted by The Captain

Six crippled or dead jockeys and horses at Kentucky Derby is a bad headline.
Racing dodged a bullet.

It is going to happen one of these days, surprised it hasn't happened before, especially going into the first turn. All it's going to take is a runner in the second flight to clip heels and go down with 14 horses behind him. As for the DQ, I wonder how many people on here that are saying that there shouldn't have been a DQ are the same ones screaming that Bayern should have been taken down?

[Tom]

race riding = I know my horse is not good enough so I will cheat to get the win

race riding = we're gonna need a bigger dose

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by burnsy

I don’t think so either. Had a ton of horse left and he wasn’t the only horse that drifted at that spot yesterday. Bearing back in is the correction of the jock trying to control him. People act like these are cars with steering wheels. The horse outweighs the jockey by 15 times and can veer in a blink. It takes a second to realize that and grab the horse. This isn’t NASCAR with million dollar cars that move on a dime. They come around the corner with screaming and yelling that loud, some are gonna spook. I swear, people should be around a race horse when they are jacked up. They are head strong, flighty animals. Try holding one, I’m old now, I can’t do it.

I agree , people saying it’s intentional have no proof, it’s borderline slander. Country House did some bumping himself, nothing said. It happens every year when this race is close on the turns. Country House was also the least affected and would of never won that race. It wasn’t even close at the end of the stretch. Of course, the boot lickers on TV will say right call. But there’s been 144 prior derbies without a call like that. If you tell me that’s never happened before. That’s the first Derby you ever watched or you are an idiot.

Gonna be hard for me to ever bet the derby again, bad precedent, people will be calling an objection every year now. That’s why i think WOW didn’t claim crap, you just don’t if the horse wins for fun.

I have plenty of proof. The horse's actions were not random. He occupied every space where a rival was coming at him, at exactly the poinr to impede the rival.

That's no libel.

[Fightingirish51195]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I have plenty of proof. The horse's actions were not random. He occupied every space where a rival was coming at him, at exactly the poinr to impede the rival.

That's no libel.

You don’t have proof. You can’t prove your claim. I can’t prove mine. This is opinion. Stop saying proof/proove

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Fightingirish51195

You don’t have proof. You can’t prove your claim. I can’t prove mine. This is opinion. Stop saying proof/proove

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

Guys are in prison for murder on less convincing evidence than we have here.

[Fightingirish51195]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

Guys are in prison for murder on less convincing evidence than we have here.

Okay but it’s not proof.

IMO your making a serious accusation against saez with very little evidence.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Fightingirish51195

Okay but it’s not proof.

IMO your making a serious accusation against saez with very little evidence.

I am making a serious accusation against Saez with strong evidence.

[azeri98]

If it is truly about horse safety there shouldn't be a 20 horse field,It's a cavalry charge at the quarter pole. You can't judge this race the same as any other if it's a typical race with 6-7 horses and it happens then fine, but all these horses are looking for a place to go, in a 20 horse field you have to allow for more

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Fightingirish51195

You don’t have proof. You can’t prove your claim. I can’t prove mine. This is opinion. Stop saying proof/proove

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence.

It is "evidence," but not "proof."

... which is Irish's contention.

The fouls are quite clear and easy to see.

Absolutely.

[Blenheim]

Originally Posted by Fightingirish51195

You don’t have proof. You can’t prove your claim. I can’t prove mine. This is opinion. Stop saying proof/proove

The fouls are quite clear and easy to see.

At 23 seconds in the first video, notice Saez’s right hand and wrist are on the left side of Maximum Security’s neck. When Saez thrusts forward on the left side, it forces the colt out to the right - clear and easy to see, absolutely and fully intentional with malice a forethought. Notice the position of the right hand of all other jockeys is opposite that of Saez.

While Saez causes outside interference, Velasquez and Code of Honor to get through on the inside. At 2:10 in the second video, Saez moves left (notice the outside to inside tire tracks), brushes against them halting their momentum. As there could be no other way, the best horse in the race, War of Will comes back to Saez’s outside. At 2:25 in the video you can see, once again, Saez “scrubs” against the left side of Maximum Security’s neck, forcing him to veer out (inside to outside tire tracks) into the path of War of Will who then backs out of it.

Evidence indicates the Stewards made the correct decision. More importantly, we are all fortunate that the reckless riding by Saez did not cause a terrible mishap that would have put the final nail in the coffin of a great and dying sport.

First Video

Second Video

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

It is "evidence," but not "proof."

... which is Irish's contention.



Absolutely.

Evidence and proof are extremely overlapping constructs. You have enough evidence and it proves something.

I have enough evidence here. Saez made 4 deliberate moves, which couldn't have beem random.

[boys at tosconova]

"i have proof."

dude,....listen to yourself

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Blenheim

The fouls are quite clear and easy to see.

At 23 seconds in the first video, notice Saez’s right hand and wrist are on the left side of Maximum Security’s neck. When Saez thrusts forward on the left side, it forces the colt out to the right - clear and easy to see, absolutely and fully intentional with malice a forethought. Notice the position of the right hand of all other jockeys is opposite that of Saez.

While Saez causes outside interference, Velasquez and Code of Honor to get through on the inside. At 2:10 in the second video, Saez moves left (notice the outside to inside tire tracks), brushes against them halting their momentum. As there could be no other way, the best horse in the race, War of Will comes back to Saez’s outside. At 2:25 in the video you can see, once again, Saez “scrubs” against the left side of Maximum Security’s neck, forcing him to veer out (inside to outside tire tracks) into the path of War of Will who then backs out of it.

Evidence indicates the Stewards made the correct decision. More importantly, we are all fortunate that the reckless riding by Saez did not cause a terrible mishap that would have put the final nail in the coffin of a great and dying sport.

First Video

Second Video

Yep. And if you back up a little further, he deliberately shuts off War of Will on the Inside too.

[Blenheim]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

Yep. And if you back up a little further, he deliberately shuts off War of Will on the Inside too.

You are correct and the video is conclusive and irrefutably clear . . .

" . . . notice Saez’s right hand and wrist are on the left side of Maximum Security’s neck. When Saez thrusts forward on the left side, it forces the colt out to the right - clear and easy to see, absolutely and fully intentional with malice a forethought."

" . . . Velasquez and Code of Honor to get through on the inside. At 2:10 in the second video, Saez moves left (notice the outside to inside tire tracks), brushes against them halting their momentum."

[jay68802]

Biggest load of sh*t I have read in a long time.