"I think this hurt him really bad."

[airford1]

Originally Posted by Blenheim

The Wests Threaten to Get Out of Racing

Someone wrote it was Karma because the West made their money from Telemarketing.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by papillon

Nah, just straight up discovery. You say you're a lawyer, if you wouldn't do this than I feel for your clients.

Discovery is fishing. You do realize without fishing Big Tabacco wouldn't have been taken down? If the records show they were having private discussions, the DQ gets over turned immediately.

The case would almost certainly be in federal court. The multistate, $75k threshold for jurisdiction, is clearly met. If smart they'll argue as a class action in violation of the Commerce Clause. Even if only grounded on breach of contract (which is what that entry form was, techinically a contract of adhesion, which are disfavored by judges,) all equitable remedies still apply, and the crosss border money lost alone is going to make a federal district judge loath to grant an order to dismiss for failure to state a claim.

If the defendant is the state of Ky as you suggest (only way a state's atty gets to argue anything) the form/law/regulation gets tossed on EP and DP clauses.

Welcome to federal practice.

You are lecturing an expert. And getting a ton of stuff wrong.

To get "straight up discovery", you need to survive a motion to dismiss despite a statute that says stewards' rulings are "unreviewable". That's BEFORE discovery. You lose that motion, you get nothing.

To do that, you need to convince the Court that you have a readily apparent violation of due process. Not that you are hoping to root around and find something. The ENTIRE POINT of that "unreviewability" statute is to PREVENT fishing. Any lawyer who stands up in court defending a fishing expedition in this context has just increased her client's likelihood of losing the case.

Other points:

1. Only a state court can hear a mandamus action reviewing a decision of a state administrative agency. Federal courts generally abstain from such matters.

Now, in theory you could sue for a Due Process violation in federal court under 28 USC 1983, but then you face all sorts of problems. Most importantly, a federal court can't actually reverse the result of a horse race. Most likely, you are limited to damages because they can compensate for the lost purse money. Federal courts do not issue mandatory, rather than prohibitory, injunctions, under any but extreme circumstances.

2. There's no such thing as a "class action for violation of the commerce clause". In fact there is no class action at all available. Read FRCP 23 if you have any doubt.

3. There's no breach of contract here. The Wests are not in privity of contract with the KHRC.

4. There's clearly no equal protection claim here. Under Wayte v. United States, selective enforcement claims are close to impossible and you aren't even allowed discovery.

The only hope would be due process, and that gets us back to my point- they need to make a plausible showing BEFORE discovery.

[dilanesp]

To add one more thing, just because I'm really kind of annoyed at a condescending post telling me I don't know anything about federal constitutional practice, no, the entry form is not a "contract" with the KHRC. It might very well be a contract with Churchill Downs, but that fact and $18 might get you a mint julep.

The determination that Maximum Security was disqualified was made by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission. Not Churchill Downs. And not, actually, even the stewards, because the stewards' ruling was appealed (as is required, as you almost always must exhaust your administrative remedies before heading to court), and the KHRC ruled against the Wests.

So the question isn't whether the Wests had a contract with Churchill (they did, but that contract was honored when Churchill permitted the horse to start and awarded the purse money pursuant to the placings ordered by the stewards and, in this case, the KHRC). The question is whether the Wests had a contract with KHRC. And they do not. The only thing they hold from the KHRC is an owners' license, and that's simply a regulatory order that permits them to race horses in the state. It's not any sort of contract.

As a result there is no ground for filing a breach of contract action here.

I should add something else-- you generally can't obtain specific performance as a remedy for breach of contract anyway. So just like the proposed Section 1983/Due Process claim, the only remedy that a contract suit could get you is the purse money anyway.

That remedy point is basically the way that parties are forced to make most of their challenges to administrative rulings in state courts.

State courts have a specific power, called a writ of mandamus, where they can mandate-- i.e., direct-- an administrative agency to issue a particular order. Federal courts, in contrast, do not issue mandatory injunctions except in extraordinary circumstances. The sort of injunction we normally think about in a court case is a PROHIBITORY injunction, which says to a state agency "you must not do something". Such as "you must not enforce this unconstitutional statute".

But what a state court, and only a state court, can do, is mandate that a state administrative agency take a particular action, such as "declare Maximum Security the winner of the Kentucky Derby".

This requirement has real bite. I have been forced on occasion to bring claims challenging administrative actions in state court, even when I preferred to be in federal court, because only a state court could offer the direct remedy of a court order requiring the agency to do something specific.

[The Biscuit]

Agree ...

Yes ...this DQ has made Horse Racing the Laughing Stock over any other Sport in the World ....

In a Big Race like the Derby ....this should be never done regardless of video showing the infraction ...

They didn't think about how much it would hurt the industry ....

Well ....they got what they deserved ...

[airford1]

Originally Posted by The Biscuit

Agree ...

Yes ...this DQ has made Horse Racing the Laughing Stock over any other Sport in the World ....

In a Big Race like the Derby ....this should be never done regardless of video showing the infraction ...

They didn't think about how much it would hurt the industry ....

Well ....they got what they deserved ...

Make sure you show the data on that when you have it.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Rex Phinney

This DQ is lame. All the way around. How are you going to put the 20 horse in the winner's circle when he was barely the one affected and he had every chance to go by the 7 and was never going todo so.


I'm not supporting everything West is doing or saying, but he is right about his statement regarding the 20 horse field. You put that many horses on the track and this type of thing is going to happen.

I heard a good suggestion this morning on Down the Stretch.
CD should buy a new, 20 stall gate, and to pay for it, sell luxury boxes on top of it! It will pay for itself in the first year.

[MadVindication]

Originally Posted by Tom

I heard a good suggestion this morning on Down the Stretch.
CD should buy a new, 20 stall gate, and to pay for it, sell luxury boxes on top of it! It will pay for itself in the first year.

How splendid indeed! The ladies will do handstands upon it trying to win the hat contest.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Gold Medal

Look how quickly WOW recovered after checking . He had plenty of time to at least make a race of it instead of fading to 8th. He never had the horse to go by Max Sec

Doesn't matter.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by The Biscuit

Agree ...

Yes ...this DQ has made Horse Racing the Laughing Stock over any other Sport in the World ....

In a Big Race like the Derby ....this should be never done regardless of video showing the infraction ...

They didn't think about how much it would hurt the industry ....

Well ....they got what they deserved ...

Reading this board, you would have thought horse racing had been a laughing stock over any other sport in the world for a few decades now.

You mean it was this DQ that finally gave it that distinction? The fall to the bottom most certainly was shallow.

[MutuelClerk]

Originally Posted by Gold Medal

Look how quickly WOW recovered after checking . He had plenty of time to at least make a race of it instead of fading to 8th. He never had the horse to go by Max Sec

Seeing as how we was wiped out, oops " checked " we will never know if he goes by. Hopefully they meet down the road someplace.