 |
|
01-30-2011, 10:52 AM
|
#1
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 772
|
Robotic Wagering Rears It's Ugly Head Again
Thought we got rid of the Youbet assisted version of Robo now Xpress Bet gets in the act. Patently unfair for non-robotic wagerers in a pari-mutual system.
"PMG plans to work with computer-robotic wagering players to set up their platforms but Luniewski said care will be taken to ensure integrity from those players. Luniewski said the added transparency of the site should prove attractive to computer-robotic wagering players, who sometimes have faced integrity questions."
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...bate-shop.aspx
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 11:27 AM
|
#2
|
|
Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
|
Internet poker trys to ban robot players because they know in the long run they drive regular players away. I suspect horse racing should do the same for the same reason. If all you have is bunch robots playing against each other, nobody wins.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 12:42 PM
|
#3
|
|
PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,445
|
Why are people so paranoid about automated wagering? The robot won't have access to some super-secret pool information...
Yes, the robot will be able to scan pools and make calculations much quicker than a human without a computer...why is that such a big deal?
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 01:13 PM
|
#4
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,597
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Why are people so paranoid about automated wagering? The robot won't have access to some super-secret pool information...
Yes, the robot will be able to scan pools and make calculations much quicker than a human without a computer...why is that such a big deal?
|
People perceive themselves at a disadvantage because they can't do it also. 
Seriously I think the worry is that someone might knock the value off one of their wagers in the last few seconds in situations where that would be difficult without the aid of a computer. I know I used to do manual win vs. exacta/double calculations trying to extract extra money out of the pools and doing it by computer surely would have helped.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 01:22 PM
|
#5
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 461
|
Sounds like this is an attempt to get back some of the offshore players that are not contributing anything to US racing.
This could be a great program to get their money back into the US and create jobs in the USA for Americans.
This should be applauded as a good step forward. Not a step backward.
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 03:20 PM
|
#6
|
|
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Why are people so paranoid about automated wagering? The robot won't have access to some super-secret pool information...
Yes, the robot will be able to scan pools and make calculations much quicker than a human without a computer...why is that such a big deal?
|
Two reasons.
1) People realize that a robotic wager is more of an advantage than speaking the bet to a live teller on the phone or punching the bet in manually into your online ADW.
2) They realize that the robotic wager could 'see' the amounts of money on each hidden pool combo and thus, water it down to be more efficient. Bettors rely on inefficiency to make long term profits, if every combo is 'paying what it should' its much harder to win.
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 03:31 PM
|
#7
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,531
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Why are people so paranoid about automated wagering? The robot won't have access to some super-secret pool information...
Yes, the robot will be able to scan pools and make calculations much quicker than a human without a computer...why is that such a big deal?
|
IMO, the worst thing about "roboting" wagering is that, by insisting on doing their betting as close to the start of the race as possible, they make it impossible for us to know what price we are getting on our bets.
It used to be that prices didn't fluctuate much, but now, at some tracks, the amounts of money wagered during the last minute of the race are staggering.
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 03:36 PM
|
#8
|
|
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by thaskalos
IMO, the worst thing about "roboting" wagering is that, by insisting on doing their betting as close to the start of the race as possible, they make it impossible for us to know what price we are getting on our bets.
It used to be that prices didn't fluctuate much, but now, at some tracks, the amounts of money wagered during the last minute of the race are staggering.
|
But, dont the robots just bet according to pool size? They're not going to 'overbet' a combo, right?
Then again, if there's more than one robot who sees a 3-1 shot at 1 MTP who deserves to be 8-5, everyone's robot bets the same horse.
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 04:12 PM
|
#9
|
|
PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,445
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by thaskalos
IMO, the worst thing about "roboting" wagering is that, by insisting on doing their betting as close to the start of the race as possible, they make it impossible for us to know what price we are getting on our bets.
|
Why single robotic wagering out when humans are also very capable of wagering at the last moment?
A big bettor could be watching the video feed, have his bets keyed up and ready to go, and hovering his cursor over the "SUBMIT WAGER" button as soon as the last horse starts to enter the gate....
I dare say humans are MORE ABLE to wager at the very LAST POSSIBLE moment when compared to "robots"...unless there are robots out there that can also effectively watch a live video feed and figure out when the last horse is about to enter the gate....
Last edited by PaceAdvantage; 01-30-2011 at 04:13 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 04:32 PM
|
#10
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,962
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Why single robotic wagering out when humans are also very capable of wagering at the last moment?
A big bettor could be watching the video feed, have his bets keyed up and ready to go, and hovering his cursor over the "SUBMIT WAGER" button as soon as the last horse starts to enter the gate....
I dare say humans are MORE ABLE to wager at the very LAST POSSIBLE moment when compared to "robots"...unless there are robots out there that can also effectively watch a live video feed and figure out when the last horse is about to enter the gate....
|
Didnt you try to do something like this once with some meagre programming? If I remember you werent breaking into Fort Knox or anything. You were just trying to find some overlays based on your betting lines or something? I can't remember.....
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 04:36 PM
|
#11
|
|
PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,445
|
I'm still doing it...although not nearly as effectively as I could be due to my slacker nature these past few years... 
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 04:48 PM
|
#12
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,531
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Why single robotic wagering out when humans are also very capable of wagering at the last moment?
A big bettor could be watching the video feed, have his bets keyed up and ready to go, and hovering his cursor over the "SUBMIT WAGER" button as soon as the last horse starts to enter the gate....
I dare say humans are MORE ABLE to wager at the very LAST POSSIBLE moment when compared to "robots"...unless there are robots out there that can also effectively watch a live video feed and figure out when the last horse is about to enter the gate....
|
PA...these "robots" do more than just place wagers at the last minute. They are tied up to sophisticated computer software, whose job it is to spot overlaid prices in various pools. Once these prices are found, wagers are calculated, and programmed to be placed at the last possible second.
I don't mind competing against "whales" or "mini-whales"...but when their bets are made as the horses are entering the gate, and 5-1 shots pay $6.80 to win...or when exactas, which at the last flash showed that they should pay $36.00, now pay $23.00...that is an unacceptable state of affairs.
ALL the players are entitled to have a somewhat accurate idea of what their bets will pay, when they place them.
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 04:56 PM
|
#13
|
|
PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,445
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by thaskalos
PA...these "robots" do more than just place wagers at the last minute. They are tied up to sophisticated computer software, whose job it is to spot overlaid prices in various pools. Once these prices are found, wagers are calculated, and programmed to be placed at the last possible second.
I don't mind competing against "whales" or "mini-whales"...but when their bets are made as the horses are entering the gate, and 5-1 shots pay $6.80 to win...or when exactas, which at the last flash showed that they should pay $36.00, now pay $23.00...that is an unacceptable state of affairs.
ALL the players are entitled to have a somewhat accurate idea of what their bets will pay, when they place them.
|
I know these robots do more than just place wagers at the last minute.
All I'm saying is, humans are more capable of placing wagers closer to the last possible moment than robots ever will be, given the current pool data available. When the tote system tells the robot there is "0mtp," the race might go off anywhere from 30 seconds to any number of minutes afterwards. Only a human watching the live video feed would be able to get a bet off at the very last possible moment.
|
|
|
|
|
01-30-2011, 05:16 PM
|
#14
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gods County, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,533
|
If you are playing numerous tracks that are running at the same time a bot is rather a handy thing to have.
Boys toys 
Last edited by Charlie D; 01-30-2011 at 05:17 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
01-31-2011, 09:42 AM
|
#15
|
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,459
|
I've had this discussion with numerous people and one thing we are in agreement with is nobody complains when they reverse happens and you get a bigger payout. Happened at the Meadowlands a few nights ago horse was 4/1 at the gate, others dropped, he went up to 9/2 and won for fun. That's a minor example but how many times have you hit a gimmick and after the payout said "that was a gift"?
Plus the robot can't see how the horse looks on the track which to me is a huge deciding factor.
Still in the long run the huge odds drop will drive bettors away (to other tracks) imo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Rate This Thread |
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
