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Old 10-21-2017, 05:52 PM   #241
thaskalos
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Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
Thask,

I'm not sure what you're looking at...

Goto the 2017 HANA Track Ratings on our site - here:
http://www.horseplayersassociation.o...7Sortable.html

Click the column labeled "Takeout Score"

Which should cause the page to sort the tracks by Takeout Score...

You should be able to see that, after the takeout hike, Keeneland has a takeout score of 1.72

Which puts them about 30th among the 60+ tracks that we covered.

The only A track with a lower takeout score than Keeneland is Churchill.



-jp

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Forgive me, Jeff...I googled for the HANA track chart...and I evidently found an old one. I haven't bet Keeneland for years...for the same reason that I don't bet Saratoga. Short meets with many shippers and an overabundance of grass races don't appeal to me, betting-wise.

I wish I could erase my prior post...
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Old 10-21-2017, 06:29 PM   #242
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No worries.


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Last edited by Jeff P; 10-21-2017 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:26 PM   #243
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what were their numbers today?
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:41 PM   #244
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Old 10-21-2017, 10:06 PM   #245
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Also... based on initial chart data:

Belmont UP +3.5M +36.5%

Santa Anita UP +793k +11.89%



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Old 10-21-2017, 11:29 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by therussmeister View Post
Otherwise they get whatever their signal fee is. Did they raise that this year too?
Yes. 1.1% is what I'm hearing from every source I've been able to check.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:35 AM   #247
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Jeff,

I'm hoping that with whatever public relations resources that you possess, you can promote the heck out of not only the Keeneland handle reduction but, just as importantly, the increase in handle of the other respective circuits during the same period

I believe that the new IRS rules are bumping up national handle, which overstates the already poor Keeneland handle.

You have some really good ammo here. I hope you take full advantage of the opportunity to display the negative effects of increased takeout. I'm sure that many of us here would be glad to assist if you can let us know how we would be able to.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:14 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by MONEY View Post
Post #226 is reporting that Keeneland's handle is down 9.3%

I'm not a mathematician, some one that is a mathematician with all of the proper pool information should do the math.

Here's my math.

Last Year the take out on win bets was 16%, this year it's 17.5%

On 10/20 the Win handle was
2,484,951 times take out 17.5% = $434,866

Add 9.3%
Last years handle might have been
2,716,051 times takeout 16% = $434,568

That's a positive $265.00 for Keeneland on win bets
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
How about exactas

Last year the takeout was 19%, this year it's 22%

On 10/20 the Ex. handle was
1,592,337 times takeout 22% = $350,314

Add 9.3%
Last years handle might have been
1,740,424 times takeout 19% = $330,680

That's a positive $19,634 for Keeneland
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It looks to me that Keeneland is making more money on handle this year than last year and that was their goal.

I don't know how the raise in takeout is affecting the attendance.
If attendance is significantly down, Keeneland could lose lots of money on parking and concessions
which could washout the profits on handle.
Although your example only pertains to on track handle , the point is made. When Churchill raised their takeout, not only did the take increase, but they got the double whammy of a tax break from the state. Previously they paid 3.5% to the state and the increase in takeout actually allowed them to lower their cut to the state to 1.5%. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong. So basically at 19%, the track and horseman and breeders i'm guessing split 15.5% of on track exotic handle. After the increase they split 20.5% of on track exotic handle. That's more than a 30% increase and it will take a monumental drop in handle for them to ever think about going back to the old rates. Especially with the Derby being such a big part of their handle. Hopefully Keeneland will consider the negative publicity of the takeout increase and go back to the previous takeout and signal fees because I know there's no turning back at Churchill.
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Old 10-22-2017, 02:18 PM   #249
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What do you think of these comments?

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Old 10-22-2017, 03:09 PM   #250
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Since I am Pick -4 player only, Keenland's increased takeout of 22% is STILL LOWER than NYRA's 24%! Further, I prefer their product over the incessant NY bred races that are carded for 'whale bettors' only, that's what NYRA cares about.

Any venue that can bury a race with Songbird somewhere early on their program, has gone absolutely corrupt.


If you look at 10/22 Kee late Pick-4 pool, it shows a total of $443K for a sequence made up of MSW, 2 ALWs and a Stake race with total purse value of $449k and then look at Bel late Pick 4 pool of $545k for a sequence of races made of 3 Stake and MSW race with purse value of $690K, it shows that Kee is a much more popular venue than Bel.

Now Kee early p4 pool was $237k vs Bel $254., this despite NYRA carding their best races in the early sequence.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:23 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by linrom1 View Post
Since I am Pick -4 player only, Keenland's increased takeout of 22% is STILL LOWER than NYRA's 24%!
Just might be the most ineffective argument I've ever seen posted...
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:29 PM   #252
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He also made a statement that Kee doesnt need money since they make so much from auctions..........


which if is really the case why the hell raise prices on the product???
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:34 PM   #253
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:32 PM   #254
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FYI, based on initial chart data, Belmont up huge again today.

Link to Side by Side Comparison - BEL 2016 vs. 2017 -- During the 1st 13 days of the Kee Fall Meet:
http://www.playersboycott.org/bel-si...de-13days.html

BEL vs. the same Sunday last year:
Quote:
+3,120,824 +50.74%
BEL Meet to date - During the 1st 13 days of the Kee Fall Meet:
Quote:
+13,611,692 +13.87%

Translation: Kee missed out on a stellar weekend - because of the takeout increase.


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Last edited by Jeff P; 10-22-2017 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:36 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by linrom1 View Post
Since I am Pick -4 player only, Keenland's increased takeout of 22% is STILL LOWER than NYRA's 24%! Further, I prefer their product over the incessant NY bred races that are carded for 'whale bettors' only, that's what NYRA cares about.

Any venue that can bury a race with Songbird somewhere early on their program, has gone absolutely corrupt.


If you look at 10/22 Kee late Pick-4 pool, it shows a total of $443K for a sequence made up of MSW, 2 ALWs and a Stake race with total purse value of $449k and then look at Bel late Pick 4 pool of $545k for a sequence of races made of 3 Stake and MSW race with purse value of $690K, it shows that Kee is a much more popular venue than Bel.

Now Kee early p4 pool was $237k vs Bel $254., this despite NYRA carding their best races in the early sequence.
I have to agree w/you about the endless parade of NY breds. That stopped me from playing that circuit many years ago. KY is my favorite circuit because there are no state bred races, but they keep stealing from the poor and middle class and giving to the rich through takeout increases. They are the opposite of Robin hood.
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