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03-11-2018, 11:05 AM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
The free trade advocates remind me of that scene from Animal House.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdFLPn30dvQ
After decades of getting our clock cleaned, rather than observing and admitting to reality they stick to fully discredited theory. It has to be the greatest case of cognitive bias in all human history. To be clear, I was guilty of it for about 20+ years also even as the evidence I was wrong first started trickling in. But it's obvious now.
Apparently years ago, the smartest and most honest guy in the room was Ross Perot.
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What evidence of "getting our clock cleaned"?
Massive levels of consumption? High standards of living? Highest manufacturing output in history? Cheap goods? $18 Trillion GDP? Full employment?
You keep saying this and others but I've seen no evidence of the global trade economy kicking our ass...
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 03-11-2018 at 11:15 AM.
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03-11-2018, 12:27 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner Dirt
The anti tariff people act like foreign countries don't put tariffs on USA goods and let American made items flow into their country with ease.
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If a country puts a 30% duty on our cars entering their country it is just fair we put 30% on them, the cost of access to our economy.
Last edited by fast4522; 03-11-2018 at 12:28 PM.
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03-11-2018, 12:36 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
If a country puts a 30% duty on our cars entering their country it is just fair we put 30% on them, the cost of access to our economy.
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You aren't putting the cost "on them", you are putting it on the consumers in this country.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-11-2018, 12:40 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,526
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Who are you trying to shit, cars alone will bring Germany to its knees, I could care less that you have to pay 30% more for your BMW. Everyone living paycheck to paycheck will laugh at you.
Last edited by fast4522; 03-11-2018 at 12:48 PM.
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03-11-2018, 12:46 PM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
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What evidence of "getting our clock cleaned"?
Massive levels of consumption? High standards of living? Highest manufacturing output in history? Cheap goods? $18 Trillion GDP? Full employment?
You keep saying this and others but I've seen no evidence of the global trade economy kicking our ass...
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This is going to disrupt Europe big time, forget your numbers because when we reach Y2K numbers and far exceed that period of time it will be at the expense of everyone else. Just as the last 30 years has been at our expense. This is just the very begining and you full well know it.
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03-11-2018, 12:51 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
Who are you trying to shit, cars alone will bring Germany to its knees, I could less that you have to pay 30% more for your BMW. Everyone living paycheck to paycheck will laugh at you.
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If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-11-2018, 12:58 PM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?
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I think American car manufacturers would have the best years ever recorded. Our economy will explode with jobs, Trump will become unbeatable. Every positive record will be shattered, socialism abroad will go into a tailspin that it can never recover from.
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03-11-2018, 01:03 PM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
I think American car manufacturers would have the best years ever recorded. Our economy will explode with jobs, Trump will become unbeatable. Every positive record will be shattered, socialism abroad will go into a tailspin that it can never recover from.
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You completely avoided the question, so let me repeat it.
If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-11-2018, 01:07 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 20,671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
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What evidence of "getting our clock cleaned"?
Massive levels of consumption? High standards of living? Highest manufacturing output in history? Cheap goods? $18 Trillion GDP? Full employment?
You keep saying this and others but I've seen no evidence of the global trade economy kicking our ass...
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When you are running consistent huge trade deficits you are losing.
You are getting depreciating goods. They are getting dollars which they use to buy US stocks, bonds, and real estate. The income from the government bonds comes out of our tax dollars and since they control the sale and purchase of trillions dollars of US bonds, they have influence over our interest rates and thus have political clout in the US also.
When you USED to have a vibrant middle class and it is evaporating because the jobs to produce goods have moved overseas, your are losing.
But hey, some of us bought blue chips stocks in the 80s and get cheaper goods at Walmarts so everything must be great.
__________________
"Unlearning is the highest form of learning"
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03-11-2018, 01:10 PM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
You completely avoided the question, so let me repeat it.
If the prices on imported cars are increased by tariffs, do you really believe that American car companies would not raise their prices?
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I think we would enter uncharted territory, our country would see the expansion of these United States uncomfortable to some but higher wages and prices. Ross Perot might then talk of the sucking sound heard in Europe being deafening.
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03-11-2018, 01:19 PM
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,402
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And to think that PA thought that it was poor old Zilzal that was a poorly tuned AI program designed to stump you with silliness.
__________________
"You make me feel like I am fun again."
-Robert James Smith, 1989
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03-11-2018, 01:37 PM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by classhandicapper
When you are running consistent huge trade deficits you are losing.
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I'll ignore the rest since I asked for evidence and its just the standard Trump/Protectionism trope.
And I'll repeat:
- $18 Trillion GDP
- Cheap Goods
- Full Employment
- Highest Manufacturing Production in History
- Highest Levels of Consumption (Globally)
- High standard of living
- Relatively Low Cost of Living (Lower than Germany, France, UK, Sweden, Finland, Japan, Australia, South Korea, you know all those countries this targets)
Getting out "clocks cleaned" doesn't seem so bad.
Grab your Friedman... we're rich... rich people spend more money... spending more money means trade deficits...
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03-11-2018, 03:01 PM
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith
And to think that PA thought that it was poor old Zilzal that was a poorly tuned AI program designed to stump you with silliness.
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The spirit of Prof. Irwin Corey lives on.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-11-2018, 03:17 PM
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: donkeys ride from ASD
Posts: 13,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
I'll ignore the rest since I asked for evidence and its just the standard Trump/Protectionism trope.
And I'll repeat:
- $18 Trillion GDP
- Cheap Goods
- Full Employment
- Highest Manufacturing Production in History
- Highest Levels of Consumption (Globally)
- High standard of living
- Relatively Low Cost of Living (Lower than Germany, France, UK, Sweden, Finland, Japan, Australia, South Korea, you know all those countries this targets)
Getting out "clocks cleaned" doesn't seem so bad.
Grab your Friedman... we're rich... rich people spend more money... spending more money means trade deficits...
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Do you know who a $50 billion trade deficit favors? It is not on your list.
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03-11-2018, 03:20 PM
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodtoo
Do you know who a $50 billion trade deficit favors? It is not on your list.
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Everyone.
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