Need help with Workouts..

[only11]

Workouts are the next too last thing i look @ when capping races..
Im realizing how important it is to capping a race..need help on a few things.

Is a fast workout before a race a overatted?
Hidden works,how to indentify when a trainer is hiding how fast a horse is?
Gate works?Why work a horse on turf then run him on dirt?
the difference between HANDILY AND BREEZING?
Does a deeper surface help?

I appreciate any input..i have been handicapping races since 13..and i feel i still have a long way to go?

BTW,i would like to thank anyone who helps with there input when i start a thread on capping races.

[therussmeister]

Originally Posted by only11

Workouts are the next too last thing i look @ when capping races..
Im realizing how important it is to capping a race..need help on a few things.

Is a fast workout before a race a overatted?
Hidden works,how to indentify when a trainer is hiding how fast a horse is?
Gate works?Why work a horse on turf then run him on dirt?
the difference between HANDILY AND BREEZING?
Does a deeper surface help?

I appreciate any input..i have been handicapping races since 13..and i feel i still have a long way to go?

BTW,i would like to thank anyone who helps with there input when i start a thread on capping races.

Is a fast work over rated? I don't think so, but there is such a thing as too fast. It seems to me many handicappers barely rate workouts at all. That is, there is not as much correlation, in my opinion, between quality of workouts, and odds as there is for other handicapping factors.
Gate works Usually for first time starters or horses who have had gate issues.
work on turf, race dirt Either the trainer couldn't find an appropriate turf race, or just because turf is kinder to horses legs; however, many tracks restrict turf w/o's to horses that have run on turf to preserve their turf.
Handily, Breezing Breezing is running easier than handily (less effort) however this is a judgment call that varies widely between clockers, with some clockers rating almost everything as breezing as some rating more w/o's handily than breezing.
deeper surface Always good for building stamina.

You have been handicapping since you were 13, but you are only11

[only11]

Originally Posted by therussmeister

Is a fast work over rated? I don't think so, but there is such a thing as too fast. It seems to me many handicappers barely rate workouts at all. That is, there is not as much correlation, in my opinion, between quality of workouts, and odds as there is for other handicapping factors.
Gate works Usually for first time starters or horses who have had gate issues.
work on turf, race dirt Either the trainer couldn't find an appropriate turf race, or just because turf is kinder to horses legs; however, many tracks restrict turf w/o's to horses that have run on turf to preserve their turf.
Handily, Breezing Breezing is running easier than handily (less effort) however this is a judgment call that varies widely between clockers, with some clockers rating almost everything as breezing as some rating more w/o's handily than breezing.
deeper surface Always good for building stamina.

You have been handicapping since you were 13, but you are only11

Only 11 reffering to triple crown winners

[johnhannibalsmith]

I'll give you the ONE workout pattern that I look for that always gets my attention and generally produces a good play:

A horse is making its second start today:

It shows a pattern of similarly average works that lead into the debut from which one can make a general opinion of how the horse tended to work. Since that debut, the horse shows at least one work before today's race and it is significantly faster (stronger) than those that defined the horse prior to the debut.

The old 'light bulb went on' after the debut race theory; these types often improve drastically in today's second start.

[Hanover1]

The key to understanding works is the distance reported, and the time recorded. Some horses require crisp short works, and some require long evenly rated works, in order to keep fit. I have trained a few in my time, and reading the form really can tell you a little, but not much past that, in regards to works. I can get as much benificial work from a horse by going the wrong way, as I can by going down on the rail. Usually if starts are spread out during the year, look for frequent works in between, and fewer between if starting 4-6 weeks out. Trainers "hiding" work is an overrated term imo. Sometimes the only spot to get a race may be an optional claimer or outright claimer, and a crisp work may still not indicate an upcoming winner. A crisp 3/8ths may prove well for a 6f starter, but anything beyond that is pure speculation, unless someone foolishly goes out there in .57 ala Hard Spun (an exception we all know...) I always try to leave a little in the tank and let the racing dictate most of the fitness issues.

[dutzman]

Whatever circuit you follow, as you get familiar with the trainers you will begin to see how they tip their hands with workouts. I really don't use workouts in my handicapping that much, but there is a place for them (first/second timers, horses coming off a layoff, horses making a class jump). If I see something I like regarding trainer intent, workouts only add to the overall picture. Get to know your circuit, and get to know how trainers work their horses.

[46zilzal]

Each horse is like a student athlete. EACH IS AN INDIVIDUAL. Don't make the mistake that many many do and automatically assume that what is good for one animal is proper and effective for another.

You would no more evaluate the exercise program of a quarterback with the program of a defense lineman, but people are always using BLANKET understanding of horses as if they were clones.

Remember that there are no drug tests after works.

[ranchwest]

I find that the fastest works (compared to the rest of the field) usually come from very lightly raced horses and horses coming off a long layoff. So, I anticipate that these types are going to have fast works.

Recently raced or worked horses sometimes follow with slow works that are merely maintenance works.

I think you have to evaluate works within the context of the other form factors of a horse.

[andymays]

For the west coast. Bruno also has a book on workouts!

www.racingwithbruno.com

or

National Turf

or

Toby Turrell

[Bobby Seller]

Nice topic


Funny that it's taboo with the online community, but there are certain things that you really need to be there, and see, in order to know. Primarily these things ultimately involve specific flaws with the horse, and whether they combine an "eligibility" of correcting the flaws with a "flaw-less" exhibition, or if they combine a likelihood of being well-bet with a "flawed" exhibition.

I haven't been fortunate to have that type of access yet myself, so I limit my workout handicapping to the sound inferences drawn from data.

This may include but not limited to:

• Frequency/Spacing
• Speed/Distance

-and considering all of them in relation to specific and general Horse and Trainer habits.
Typically this is a small part of my total opinion.


From the perspective of a hobbyist it may be considered an entertaining exercise to draw uncertain conclusions from reading "between the lines" of the worktab. However, it boils down to the old adage "Bad Information + Good Information = Bad Information".

[Stillriledup]

There's a lot to workouts, what they mean and how to use them in your handicapping. There's no one way to skin a cat. Its all trial and error. You have to really be observant and figure out what works for you. The one general piece of advice i can give out is that slower is better. If you have a high class horse who has 5 furlong workouts in 102 and they're spaced apart nicely (every 5/6 days) than the trainer is 'telling' you that his horse is fit and ready and he's just using those works as 'maintenance'.

Sometimes fast can be bad too. Know your horse. If an old claimer is running well, running well, running well and then throws in a clunker and then gets beat by double digits, you don't want to see that runner come back with a fast work. Sometimes less is more. Its important to know your horse...some horses just always work fast....if a horse has consistently fast works, well, he's just a fast worker in the mornings.

Learn to think like a trainer, that way, you can learn to read into what a trainer is trying to accomplish with the way he works certain horses.

[bisket]

i look at works just to see how active a horse has been. i analyze times for a horse running off a layoff to see if he's ready to win strictly off works or may need a race. this along with the trainers pctg. for first out winners is a good indication if a horse is ready to perform close to its best or may need a couple races. if you see a horse working alot and also has a few works close to the fastest times for that morning at that distance for a horse racing off the bench he's gonna probably be racing close to top form. now if its all light breezes at times near the bottom 1/2 for the the mornings this one probably needs a few races before he'll be in top form.
now if you see a runner thats raced 1 or 2 times and had a good hard work before the last race and after the last race. than has a few light ones going into this one. this says to me the trainer has gone into the maitenance mode, and he's got the horse where he wants him. usually a horse thats just raced and is already in form will get a light work off his last race. the hard work directly after the race says the trainer didn't get what he wanted in the race. so a good stiff one is in order, than the light ones say its maintenance so the horse is where the trainer wants him. trying to interpret works is one of the most difficult things a handicapper trys to do. you just want to look at them as far as where a horse is form wise. its very subjective because there's a million different ways a trainer can get a horse in top form. most depend on what the horse responds to. you don't want to put too much emphasis on them, but just get as much info as possible from them.

[46zilzal]

I have spoken to many an English horsemen and they chuckle at the NA mania about work out times. They take the entire stable out together and exercise them teaching the ones who need it the lessons they need for the track and NEVER time what doesn't need to be timed anyway: EXERCISE.

[Norm]

I don't consider workouts a major handicapping factor. I don't ignore workouts, but I'm just looking for a few generalities -

A horse just coming off the vets list has to show me a work of 12 sec/furlong or I eliminate him. A major negative sign is such a horse with just one slow work after coming off the list.

A horse with no races or works in more than 30 days gets a red flag unless he is the superior class of the field and did not embarrass himself last out.

A horse with a fast work 1 or 2 days before a race gets a red flag. The work probably took the wind out of his sails. (It's not 1970 anymore.)

A horse with a really bad last out, a big class drop and no work since the last race is a risky proposition.