What Data Is Publicly Available versus Must I Purchase - Confused?

[Wizard of Odds]

I'm genuinely confused.

Can I obtain recent years of simple data for major tracks? Simple data might include: type of race, BRIS rating for each horse, morning line for each horse and results.

Would this be free or would I need to purchase it?

I'm trying to do some simple studies and I'm confused because there are data user agreement rules, yet I see many analyses and bulk studies displayed on PA and the Internet, in general. I see both individual races analyzed using obtained data and aggregate win percent, ROI results presented online.

I've asked similar questions before, but let me distill this to my basic question:
What is the minimum work/cost to obtain the above rudimentary data from every track for the last few years?


Thanks for any responses and your help.


Wiz

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Wizard of Odds

I'm genuinely confused.

Can I obtain recent years of simple data for major tracks? Simple data might include: type of race, BRIS rating for each horse, morning line for each horse and results.

Would this be free or would I need to purchase it?

Wiz

Nothing beyond charts is free, and even those are only for personal use.

BRIS ratings come in BRIS data, which is a pay-for commodity.

[Wizard of Odds]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Nothing beyond charts is free, and even those are only for personal use.

BRIS ratings come in BRIS data, which is a pay-for commodity.

You can obtain lots of free data (including BRIS data and BRIS ratings) from:

http://www.horse-races.net/library/l...rformances.htm


as well as other sites that provide program entries.


If someone has used these free sources and aggregated them wouldn't that be a non-paid allowable commodity?

[linrom1]

The BRIS data is not free. Some trainers, owners and breeders are providing it to their clients and public by paying for this service to BRIS.

This is not a free service.

You can use archival chart information for your own purposes, but you can't repackage and make it available to public.

[Wizard of Odds]

Originally Posted by linrom1

The BRIS data is not free. Some trainers, owners and breeders are providing it to their clients and public by paying for this service to BRIS.

This is not a free service.

You can use archival chart information for your own purposes, but you can't repackage and make it available to public.

The title on the website literally says: "Free Past Performances".

Once provided by trainers, owners and breeders to the public, can't the pubic now use it for free? Couldn't I use public stock market information and aggregate it any way I want and share it with public?

[Wizard of Odds]

Originally Posted by Wizard of Odds

The title on the website literally says: "Free Past Performances".

Once provided by trainers, owners and breeders to the public, can't the pubic now use it for free? Couldn't I use public stock market information and aggregate it any way I want and share it with public?

I just read this on the bottom of the Website for a trainer:

"This product was created with data that were supplied by and are proprietary to Equibase Company LLC. All rights reserved. Reuse of this data is expressly prohibited."


I wonder what exactly constitutes "rights reserved" and "reuse"? I can certainly look at the information twice. I really don't know if this is enforceable or what it even means?

[headhawg]

Originally Posted by Wizard of Odds

I wonder what exactly constitutes "rights reserved" and "reuse"? I can certainly look at the information twice. I really don't know if this is enforceable or what it even means?

I'm no lawyer but I'll take a stab at this. Rights Reserved means that the company controls the data and the presentation of such. Reuse means that because the rights are reserved you cannot repackage, resell, or claim as your own any of the data without express permission of Equibase. It's copyright law so yes it's enforceable. You can probably manipulate the data for personal use without the Equibase attorneys sending you a cease-and-desist order, but any attempt to commercialize it will land you in court.

As an example, there was a software developer that wrote a program to parse the pdf charts and store the data in a database that could then be manipulated in something like Excel. This was a free program and he still got the cease-and-desist letter and had to stop providing the program to the public.

So if you want to take your chances, go ahead.

[xtb]

Free past performances and/or chart data is hit or miss and when you find it, it will either be in .pdf form or .html. If you are planning on doing analysis on one or two years worth of data, you will need a method to scrape or convert the data in some way to load into a database or app, unless you enjoy lots of manual data entry.

[Wizard of Odds]

Originally Posted by xtb

Free past performances and/or chart data is hit or miss and when you find it, it will either be in .pdf form or .html. If you are planning on doing analysis on one or two years worth of data, you will need a method to scrape or convert the data in some way to load into a database or app, unless you enjoy lots of manual data entry.

Ugggh!

[Wizard of Odds]

There has to be an easier way than me starting from scratch?

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Wizard of Odds

The title on the website literally says: "Free Past Performances".

Once provided by trainers, owners and breeders to the public, can't the pubic now use it for free? Couldn't I use public stock market information and aggregate it any way I want and share it with public?

Probably not. Somewhere on that site is PROBABLY a terms of service (TOS) that prevents it.

There has to be an easier way than me starting from scratch?

Easier? Sure. Pay for it.

Cheap? Not that I am aware of.


(Understand that I am not against free data. I believe the industry would be better off were the data completely free. Alas, I am not in charge.)

[Wizard of Odds]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Probably not. Somewhere on that site is PROBABLY a terms of service (TOS) that prevents it.




Easier? Sure. Pay for it.

Cheap? Not that I am aware of.


(Understand that I am not against free data. I believe the industry would be better off were the data completely free. Alas, I am not in charge.)

How do you think it would be viewed if I collaborated with someone who had the data? I am not a programmer, but I see requests for programmers from those who have data. Is the programmer who didn't himself buy the data in compliance? Is the data purchaser who is using the programmer's work with bought data in compliance?

Thanks,

Wiz

[Tom]

Most of this is out-dated, but the last two for stakes races still has some value.
BRIS provided it at one time.

I would certainly check before using it for other than personal uses, but at least it is there for folks to use themselves. Probably not for what you what it for.
BRIS numbers are not public domain.


http://horseracingdatasets.com/

[stuball]

I would say that any people that have achieved any success in horse race handicapping did not get there "ON THE CHEAP". Through my own experience
I have tried many routes to get to the "Yellow Brick Road" My medical problems have derailed me and forced a different route for me.. I allocate a certain amount of $$ at the beginning of the year and do occasional betting online. Much more enjoyable and stress free. I also just discovered CBD oil which has relieved my aches and pains and nearly stopped my other issues..
I never add to my betting account until the end of the year if it needs it..
Stuball

[Wizard of Odds]

Originally Posted by stuball

I would say that any people that have achieved any success in horse race handicapping did not get there "ON THE CHEAP". Through my own experience
I have tried many routes to get to the "Yellow Brick Road" My medical problems have derailed me and forced a different route for me.. I allocate a certain amount of $$ at the beginning of the year and do occasional betting online. Much more enjoyable and stress free. I also just discovered CBD oil which has relieved my aches and pains and nearly stopped my other issues..
I never add to my betting account until the end of the year if it needs it..
Stuball

Hope you get well soon and the CBD oil speeds your recovery.

I'm very frustrated that I have all this mathematical, machine learning and artificial intelligence knowledge, but don't have the horse racing historical data readily available in order to enable me to put all my skills and training to use.

Even if I were given all the BRIS data, I don't have the programming skills, time nor inclination to parse through all the data pieces to create a coherent database. Ideally, I would want to have the database already logically established. I'm interested in doing heavy analyses and not having to do work to create a database..... VERY FRUSTRATING!