Parallels: The Olympics and Thoroughbred Racing

[cj]

Originally Posted by clocker7

Due diligence would mean looking into the background of past federal performance, wouldn't it?

What you said is a little weird. You wouldn't cede control over another important segment of your life without doing some basic checking. Are you that desperate? It almost sounds like bridge-jumping.

I know Obama Care doesn't change my life one bit, at least not yet, so why would I bother learning about it? I'm retired military and medical coverage is part of my retirement. Nothing has changed for me at all.

You sure do make some pretty bold, and mostly wrong, assumptions in your posts.

That said, no matter what you think of the government and how things are run, they can't be worse than what we have in racing now in my opinion.

[clocker7]

Originally Posted by BettinBilly

I get what he is saying. Enforcement is the issue. I've been VERY involved in Endurance Sports on just about EVERY level since 1989. And I mean EVERY level. I speak from experience. The USOC and sub groups (USA Triathlon, USA Cycling, USA Track and Field, etc) are stepping in line.

This article even stated the Armstrong incident that I outlined above.
That really jump-started things.

I have a prediction that even Mr. Tygart would probably agree with: 5/10/20/50 years down the road, there will be creative cheaters that defeat the best efforts of drug testing protocols, so that medals will be won by the deceptive.

Let me give you another parallel: Wall Street. The feds have been involved for over a hundred years, and yet the situation is still the Wild Wild West, to borrow a phrase from Thaskalos. Insider trading is rampant, stock manipulation is a daily event, and bulk traders and computer algorithms have seized the advantage over Joe Public Sucker. Despite the highest of intentions by feeble-minded dogooders and the empty promises of the federal politicians and bureaucrats with ginormous budgets, mass rape is the basic end product. Sorry to be so graphic.

Now, maybe some newbies might think that horse racing will turn out to be special-er and holier upon the advent of the USADA, but anyone older than 40 probably has deserved reservations about that outcome.

[Dave Schwartz]

Enforcement absolutely IS the issue.

Cycling took its #1 star, disgraced him and canned him permanently. Ask yourself this: Could racing do that?

Would racing take a top guy like Baffert and bar him for life?

I just could not see that EVER happening.

Again and again we hear, "Well, people have to make a living." Of course, the unspoken part of that sentence is: "Besides, the bettors' money lost doesn't really matter."

[cj]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Enforcement absolutely IS the issue.

Cycling took its #1 star, disgraced him and canned him permanently. Ask yourself this: Could racing do that?

Would racing take a top guy like Baffert and bar him for life?

I just could not see that EVER happening.

Again and again we hear, "Well, people have to make a living." Of course, the unspoken part of that sentence is: "Besides, the bettors' money lost doesn't really matter."

While I agree mostly, they did get rid of Dutrow for a decade (if you think Michelle Nevin isn't his beard, that is). The worst part of that is that there are much worse guys out there than Dutrow actively plying their trade.

[rastajenk]

How would racing be served by banning Baffert for life?

Isn't anyone else besides clocker7 concerned with overzealous, agenda-driven prosecutorial overreach by national administrators, who get their positions by collecting scalps more than a record of fair and even-handed dispensation of justice? On what basis or experience is that level of trust justified? If the IRS can be weaponized, surely a nation racing authority would be. Did everyone here check their innate skepticism at the log-in level? I thought horseplayers encouraged themselves to think outside the box, but on these kinds of "integrity" isssues, there is distressingly low levels of tolerance for varying viewpoints.

One doesn't have to be completely satisfied with a status quo to be against a new federal bureaucracy, an egregious erosion of states' rights, and an agenda being driven by folks that want to put racing out of business. For all the words typed in Off Topic about an inefficient government and a bureaucracy out of control, there's precious little of that attitude over here. Very disappointing.

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Enforcement absolutely IS the issue.

Cycling took its #1 star, disgraced him and canned him permanently. Ask yourself this: Could racing do that?

Would racing take a top guy like Baffert and bar him for life?

I just could not see that EVER happening.

Again and again we hear, "Well, people have to make a living." Of course, the unspoken part of that sentence is: "Besides, the bettors' money lost doesn't really matter."

Baffert IS racing, he's going to bar himself? He tells the CHRB how high to jump and they say yes sir Mr Baffert, anything you say.

[cj]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

How would racing be served by banning Baffert for life?

I guess that would all depend on what he was banned for doing, no?

[BettinBilly]

With regard to "Enforcement";

Agreed. Most of us that are involved with Endurance Sport have often contemplated "What Ifs" regarding doping, and engaged in long, heated conversations regarding how and where and why to test athlete blood. It's been a nightmare until the USOC produced clear guidelines. All Certified Officials of each organization and each Regional Organization Chair (ROC) had to be schooled on how this was going to play out. Now you have regulation, but enforcement is up to the individual organizations. People want Champions, yes? It's human nature. However, there sometimes is a cost.

Another issue that I am surprised has not been publicly tabled yet is that of Altitude Training with regard to doping. Many of our Pro Athletes train in Colorado Springs at the USOC Training Center or even Breckenridge. That spikes their Red Blood Cell count. I remember the first time I was in Breckenridge and went out for what I thought was going to be a quick 5k run. Even though I was in superior shape at sea level, that run killed me. It was more like a 1/2 Marathon. Years ago, athletes would have a pint or two tapped after a month of high altitude training, only to transfuse it later a day or two before an athletic meet at sea level. It was the first "Blood Doping" issue.

Then you have the "Elevated Testosterone" argument. One side of the table will argue that any man whom works his legs to exhaustion for 5 or 6 hours a day on a bicycle is going to have elevated testosterone levels. It's the nature of the discipline. The other side of the table will argue that those level spikes are due to injection or supplement, and not by Testosterone production through induced leg muscle training.

Lots of issues here. As I said, it's human nature to want Champions - Human or Quadruped. You have to wonder what is not caught with regard to artificial endurance.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by rastajenk

How would racing be served by banning Baffert for life?

Isn't anyone else besides clocker7 concerned with overzealous, agenda-driven prosecutorial overreach by national administrators, who get their positions by collecting scalps more than a record of fair and even-handed dispensation of justice? On what basis or experience is that level of trust justified? If the IRS can be weaponized, surely a nation racing authority would be. Did everyone here check their innate skepticism at the log-in level? I thought horseplayers encouraged themselves to think outside the box, but on these kinds of "integrity" isssues, there is distressingly low levels of tolerance for varying viewpoints.

One doesn't have to be completely satisfied with a status quo to be against a new federal bureaucracy, an egregious erosion of states' rights, and an agenda being driven by folks that want to put racing out of business. For all the words typed in Off Topic about an inefficient government and a bureaucracy out of control, there's precious little of that attitude over here. Very disappointing.

Aren't you going overboard given that racing's controlled now by the government - it's just the state governments instead of the fed government. Can you name just one instance of where racing is better off by being run by the states instead of the feds? I'm fine with trading one government control for the other given that racing can only be better by one set of rules across the country. Even if everything else is a toss-up as to which is better, that one benefit is worth the trade.

What's being neglected in this convo is that there's another option for the Feds, and that's giving control over to an industry-run central organization. That's the best option.

Racing would be better off, by the way, for any dirty trainer to be gone. I don't care if it's Baffert or Pletcher or Jacobson or Motion (since the latter's the one held up as the posterboy of clean). If they're not clean and humane, they should be gone.

[clocker7]

If you like the TSA, then you are going to LOVE federal control of racing.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by clocker7

If you like the TSA, then you are going to LOVE federal control of racing.

Better than what we have now. The question people like you should be asking yourselves is how much money is going to overseas as access to Hong Kong and other pools become open to US bettors. If I can bet a clean product, why should I bet on American races?

[clocker7]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Better than what we have now.

Guarantees like that are comical.

The federal government cannot even perform many of its core functions, like immigration control for example. Yours is not confidence ... it is silly blind faith.

The TSA is a classic example of taking something federal, bloating its budget, overpaying its employees, and turning what should be a people-friendly encounter into an arrogant, rude, thick-headed operation that hassles grannies for sport.

If that's your idea of improvement ....

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by clocker7

Guarantees like that are comical.

The federal government cannot even perform many of its core functions, like immigration control for example. Yours is not confidence ... it is silly blind faith.

The TSA is a classic example of taking something federal, bloating its budget, overpaying its employees, and turning what should be a people-friendly encounter into an arrogant, rude, thick-headed operation that hassles grannies for sport.

If that's your idea of improvement ....

Knock the TSA as much as you want, but nobody has hijacked an airplane and rammed it into a building since they were formed. The same can not be said for the Mickey Mouse security that the airlines provided before.
I am willing to put up with a lot if it would do as good a job in cleaning up racing as the TSA has done in stopping terrorists. Especially since you and the rest of the industry refuses to police yourselves.

[clocker7]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Knock the TSA as much as you want, but nobody has hijacked an airplane and rammed it into a building since they were formed. The same can not be said for the Mickey Mouse security that the airlines provided before.
I am willing to put up with a lot if it would do as good a job in cleaning up racing as the TSA has done in stopping terrorists. Especially since you and the rest of the industry refuses to police yourselves.

What your forgot was that there was an intervening period after 9-11 where the same security functioned the same, but without the inanity of TSA, let alone its mammoth cost.

That is my point. People here more or less agree that a problem exists. But the disagreement is how to improve it some. The feds have a track record of being inefficient, along with much undesirable overkill attached.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by clocker7

What your forgot was that there was an intervening period after 9-11 where the same security functioned the same, but without the inanity of TSA, let alone its mammoth cost.

That is my point. People here more or less agree that a problem exists. But the disagreement is how to improve it some. The feds have a track record of being inefficient, along with much undesirable overkill attached.

There is no disagreement in the industry itself on how to tackle the problem. Their solution is to ignore it 100% of the time. They have shown no interest in "improving it some". Get your buddies in the industry to actually do something other than deny there is a problem and we can talk. If you don't want the Feds in the sport, there is one surefire way to keep them out. Clean it up yourselves. If you don't, all the tea party rhetoric in the world isn't going to keep them out. It is only a matter of time.