Odds' Changes after the Bell

[Lefty]

Mike, you said betting should stop when the starter pushes the button . As far as I know it is. Trouble is all the last minute bets that have been made at all the simulcast sites that haven't been calculated by the computers yet. You can see the odds change as the horses run; that's the computer counting the dough. I guess we need faster and faster computers for this work.
I hope I didn't misunderstand your post.

[Rick]

I still can't buy the argument that they don't have the technology to do it practically instantaneously. The calculations are just not that complex. I think you'll find that they could do it but won't invest any money in doing it right.

[ranchwest]

I think one of the things that you have to keep in mind is that the entire system can only work as fast as the slowest system because until that system checks in, it isn't complete. That slowest system might be based on 15 year old technology.

[Rick]

ranchwest,

Very good point.

[takeout]

I think this may tie in with why many tracks continue to show a payoff on a $2 ticket even when there are no winning $2 tickets out there. It's even in the charts that way. If they didn't also print the pool totals in the charts, who would know? The only reason I've been able to think of is that it's cheaper (and better "advertising") to mislead the public on those occasions than to spend what it would take to post the correct payoff. Just the other day a friend was raving about a daily double payoff that was in excess of 5K. That's a neat trick with only a little over 3K in the pool. My guess is they could do most anything they wanted to if they were willing to spend the money and that includes correcting the problem of having sometimes more than half of the win pool come in after the race has started. If it ever becomes important to anyone other than the bettors, it might actually get done.

[so.cal.fan]

I have long argued with the people who are screaming "foul" here, that "they" are getting into the computers and stealing our money.
However, all this needs to be reformed. It just isn't going to instill confidence in horseracing. We need people to know we are on the square.
This is getting too much negative publicity.
The "incident" that happened opening day at Hollywood Park was the final straw.
Does this whole set up seem KOSHER to you guys?
What can be done to correct it?

[MikeDee]

Lefty, I got the impression from the orginal article that the betting was stopped by a steward who pushed a button seprate from the starter who opens the gates. Not the first time I misunderstood something

[so.cal.fan]

There are SEVERAL stewards that push SEVERAL buttons.
This doesn't sound like a good system to me.

[ridersup]

These stewards that push the all important button are usually made up of former jockeys and trainers. Now we all trust these guys don't we.

Seriously this problem of odds changing after the bell is probably one of the most serious ones facing racing today. I have visited numerous tracks around the country and have heard this same complaint from many, many people.

I have posted at least twice on this board that I have seen several machines that remained open until at least the field reached the 1/2 mile pole in a 6 f race. I personnaly watched a guy punch in $50 tickets on the lead horse as fast as he could DURING the 1st 1/4 mile of the race. Now he didn't always win but he definitly had an advantage. At the time I made this post a poster from California replied that if I thought this could happen I should stop betting.

With regard to this 30 or even 60 second dely I would like for someone to explain how, after a race has been run in One Minute and Forty Five seconds, do the odds change while the winning horse is walking to the winners circle.

Sorry about the ranting and raving but this IS my biggest problem with racing today and is turning a lot of fans off this great sport.

In my opinion racing must address this problem and apparently from the initial post in this thread many people are asking about this situation.

I would suggest as I have in the past that all bets be cut off at least 2 min prior to post time. At least then the racing public could be secure in knowing that bets are not being accepted after the bell.

[so.cal.fan]

Ridersup:
Did this happen in Fla.?
Our betting machines in Calif. turn off when that bell rings.
You can't get a bet down, at least not at Santa Anita, Hollywood Park or Del Mar.
I agree with you that this is a serious problem, and it is destroying people's confidence in the sport.
I have heard several reports such as yours, and I have no doubt they are all true.
If I knew that people were betting after the race started, unless I was doing the same thing, I don't think I would bet.
It seems this thing has really gotten out of control since the offshore betting began.
I know some of our officials here in Calif. are going to try to stop this in Calif. I don't know all the reasons why, but there is a lot of talk, and it is serious.

PS
Can you bet Calif. races at 6 furlongs after the bell?
If so, please email me, and I'll be in Fla. asp. LOL

[Rick]

I think the worst part of this is that real fraud could easily be covered up under these conditions. How can we be sure that an insider (maybe a computer operator or programmer) at the track isn't using some loophole to past-post large bets when we can't even detect it in the movement of the odds.

Of course the other really bad thing is that it supports the widespread public perception that the races are fixed.

[so.cal.fan]

This is exactly what several of the guys I know, have been saying, that it is very possible a computer guy at the track is doing this.
Where there is so much money involved............hey, it's more than possible, it is almost a certainty that it is, has or will be tried.
The incident that happened opening day at Hollywood with a 100K bet going down, after the horses left the gate........not even the biggest optimists like myself, could deny............."hey, wait a minuet" Now that money alledgedly came from Maine, and from an Offshore outfit.
My question at the time, was I wondered if someone was setting the stage for a big score on Ky Derby day at Churcill Downs, seeing just what they could get away with? Of course, the good thing is, it sure did call attention to the "problem"

[cj]

While stationed in Wyoming last year and frequenting the OTB, I was many times able to place a wager at the self service machine while watching the start of the race. I never really tried to take advantage of it as it would only be for a few seconds, but somewhere the system is too slow somewhere in the loop. This usually happened only on the SoCal races.

CJ

[ranchwest]

I agree that it seems logical to cut off wagering at the 2 minute mark, but this also presents some problems:

1) A horse has difficulty loading in the gate. Sometimes all of the horses are pulled from the gate. You might want to change or cancel your wager, but wagering is closed. You probably won't be very happy if you've got $200 on a horse and they pull the horses from the gate and you can't cancel.

2) It is helpful to watch a horse loosen up before the race. If wagering is closed 2 minutes before the race, very often you might have only seconds between the warmup and the closing of wagers, with a line at the window of 40 people.


Is there a way to address these problems?

[rrbauer]

I really think that if you, as a horseplayer, think that the game is fixed; or, the betting is fixed; or, if the machines are fixed; or, if a programmer is getting into the system via the backdoor and cheating; or, believe in any other of the scams that are mentioned that you should find another game.

If you have suggestions, etc., that would improve the systems why don't you make them to the appropriate racing boards and authorities? If you have knowledge of some illegal activity or rules being bent to give someone an advantage what do you gain; indeed, what does racing gain; by posting it here and not advising the officials?

And, before you start jumping on me about having a right to your opinion and feedom of speech and the right to say what you want to, keep in mind that I have those rights too.