W O W ! ! ! !

[Broad Brush]

Originally Posted by rsetup

I like the horses that herd -- on their own.

I love those too!!

I always closely watch first-time starters who duck in or out thru the stretch.

Are they shying from the whip or are they trying to hit the other horses
because they don't want them going by them. The latter is a horse to follow.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by Nitro

I wanted to mention a horse that was blocked in its KY Derby venture, yet still finished 4th to the great Secretariat in that race. Later it became one of NY’s finest handicap horses winning repeatedly using the same running technique many are raving about here: Closing a ton and running Wide to avoid traffic.

The irony in bringing up Forego is that, like both Arrogate and Zenyatta, Forego was a big, lanky "backward" juvenile, which kept them from making any starts at 2.

And yet, despite not debuting until he was 3, he was still able to make the Kentucky Derby and finish 4th behind the mighty Secretariat.

Forego's problems at 2 were his arthritic ankles, which plagued him throughout his career. Arrogate reportedly had shin trouble (which is a typical problem for juveniles) and Zenyatta supposedly had a skin rash...

[MargieRose]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Zenyatta beat Mine That Bird on synth, and also not during the period of time when he ran his best races. You don't look at all the facts where it concerns Zenyatta.

Rachel Alexandra won over a synthetic track at Keeneland, so why the big deal about synthetic?

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

There is enough proof out there to suggest that there is a distinct performance similarity between synthetic and turf. Consequently...Zenyatta might have also been the country's top GRASS horse...if given the opportunity.

I agree. With her running style and love for synth, I wish we had the chance to see her on turf.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by MargieRose

Rachel Alexandra won over a synthetic track at Keeneland, so why the big deal about synthetic?

That was an allowance race, not a graded stakes against some other top horses (mostly turf) who liked the surface. She was also owned by another person, not Jackson, when she ran in that allowance. Jackson got burned the previous year by taking the best older male dirt horse to the race and losing. He wasn't doing it again.

[EasyGoer89]

Originally Posted by MargieRose

Rachel Alexandra won over a synthetic track at Keeneland, so why the big deal about synthetic?

Wow my memory is going I don't remember Rachel at keeneland on poly track I need to start taking those brain pills!

[cj]

Originally Posted by MargieRose

Rachel Alexandra won over a synthetic track at Keeneland, so why the big deal about synthetic?

The owner didn't like it. That is well documented. Why should he run on a surface he didn't like? He also owned Curlin, remember?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

Funny...I was here throughout that epic Rachel campaign...and no Rachel fan here ever suggested at that time that Rachel was "done" at the end of it. Even when Rachel started "underperforming" during the early stages of her 4-year old campaign, the excuses were coming rapid-fire from her "fanboys"...especially when her connections "ducked" the much-anticipated Zenyatta/Rachel showdown on the dirt at Oaklawn.

When was it exactly that you concluded that Rachel was "done", Mike...and why did you keep this observation a secret from us here?

DONE FOR THE YEAR. Not done for good. My comment that she was never the same was an additional thought that applied, obviously not at the time, but crafted with HINDSIGHT...not meant to be taken that it was known after the Woodward that she was finished for good...

After the Woodward and her 3yo campaign in total, which even you must admit was more than ambitious, any reasonable person would conclude that a break wasn't unexpected.

Or maybe you agree she ducked the BC Classic too...so...where did she race instead? I mean, if you duck a race, it naturally should mean you raced in another, easier spot...so where did she run in place of the BC Classic? The Distaff? Or maybe she found an easy race out in California while Zenyatta was on break?

My memory sucks these days...maybe you can help a brutha out.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Nitro

So when people talk about greatness or great races, why not hold them accountable by having them put their comments in proper perspective. As good as you think Arrogate might be you’ll never it see come close to becoming legendary like these and many other horses who are in fact true legends, because unfortunately it’ll never have that opportunity.

Funny, the old timers were saying the same exact thing about Secretariat, Affirmed, Seattle Slew and Spectacular Bid...you know, the guys who were out there who saw Citation, Count Fleet, Dr. Fager, Kelso, Native Dancer, and all the legends of the mid 1900s running in their prime....they sounded just like you do now...

There's always going to be naysayers when a new legend comes strolling onto the scene, and you apparently are one of them. Revel in it...

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by Nitro

I was glad to see that some here refused to go along with all the hype of this performance and tried to perhaps put things in perspective. I too have witnessed some great races, and because so many have referred the way Arrogate closed so impressively I wanted to mention a horse that was blocked in its KY Derby venture, yet still finished 4th to the great Secretariat in that race. Later it became one of NY’s finest handicap horses winning repeatedly using the same running technique many are raving about here: Closing a ton and running Wide to avoid traffic. I believe one of the greatest races I’ve ever seen is its victory in the 1976 1¼ M. Marlboro Cup in 2 minutes flat.

In my write-up on the post-race hype I mentioned a few performances "of the century" that I witnessed. Any of Secretariat's TC races; Seattle Slew running killing fractions at a mile and a half and losing a nose to Exceller (and whipping Triple Crown winner Affirmed in the process); and of course Forego's impossible win against Honest Pleasure. One of the things to remember about that race was that Forego broke well and was close to the leaders early before dropping back. He is in a very tight photo with Secretariat for my favorite horse of all time.

I believe great horses have push button speed and can usually win from anywhere. Arrogate fits that bill, and he may legitimately be mentioned in the same breath as Man o'War and Secretariat...someday.

[Fager Fan]

The Woodward was planned to be her last race for the year. It was widely known after that she was finally spent after that race, so it was a good thing they didn't plan for her to race again that year.

Jackson owns a KY farm. Unfortunately, as some trainers will do, Asmussen talked Jackson into keeping Rachel with him at the track. Huge mistake. She needed both a physical and mental freshening that can't happen at the track. She needed to be walking around in a paddock all day. Had they done this, she might've returned to her prior level.

Yes, Jackson did duck the possible meeting with Zenyatta at Oaklawn, but at the time, not a soul blamed him. Rachel had just returned to a shocking defeat. What's the point in sending either a subpar Rachel or subpar Zenyatta to such a match up? It would've proven nothing if both weren't prepared to run their best. It was logical and taking care of the horse to say that Rachel couldn't meet Zenyatta in her next race.

One little known fact: Asmussen wanted no part in running Rachel in the Preakness. That was 100% Jackson, against Asmussen's wishes. He'd just gotten her and wanted to give her some time and go the normal filly route. We definitely have Jackson to credit for the one of the best 3yo filly campaigns in history.

Jackson was often maligned, but I liked what I saw from him. I loved when he went after a few people in the industry for the fleecing/fraud that these guys love to do to new owners. It's too bad those people are still plying their trade in the sport. He made a really bold prediction about his two stars, that he'd race them long to prove their superiority, and that then it'd translate in the shed. A stallion or broodmare prospect have probably about a 5-10% chance of making it, and yet both Curlin and Rachel proved they had the goods in the breeding shed as well as the track. That prediction would've paid a fortune if it was offered by a bookmaker, and he nailed it.

[LottaKash]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

I believe great horses have push button speed and can usually win from anywhere. Arrogate fits that bill, and he may legitimately be mentioned in the same breath as Man o'War and Secretariat...someday.

I can agree with that wholeheartedly...

I truly believe that the "push button" part, is what what we perceive as the "greatness" that we all speak of when comparing or reminiscing these all time great and classy animals...

I have had the privilege of seeing those gritty, snarly, push button greats, while winning our hearts right into our own, and personal, versions of The Hall of Fame....

[Fager Fan]

Fager and Ruffian beg to differ. So does Native Diver.

[PaceAdvantage]

This thread reminds me of this (NSFW):

YouTube

And notice what the old timer is holding in his hands, sitting in that chair...

[cj]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

This thread reminds me of this (NSFW):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LPddiQXD9c

And notice what the old timer is holding in his hands, sitting in that chair...

One of greatest comedy movie scenes of all time.