Hey Libs....read and learn,,,,,,

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by tucker6

Any other description of his total view on the subject of tariffs is due to your subjective view of his intent.

His intent is to decrease imports and increase consumption of American-made goods through government interference in the market. Tariffs will remain on countries that don't "cooperate". In place of tariffs, he wants either "voluntary" higher prices on imports or quotas, "voluntary" limits on the quantity of imported goods.

The end result in any case is higher prices to American consumers, which he calls free but fair trade. And which is neither free nor fair to American consumers.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by Clocker

His intent is to decrease imports and increase consumption of American-made goods through government interference in the market. Tariffs will remain on countries that don't "cooperate". In place of tariffs, he wants either "voluntary" higher prices on imports or quotas, "voluntary" limits on the quantity of imported goods.

The end result in any case is higher prices to American consumers, which he calls free but fair trade. And which is neither free nor fair to American consumers.

What a myopic view of tariffs you have. You take a glass half empty approach to tariffs when there is no need for it. I get it. You're a Never Trumper. A dying breed by the way.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by tucker6

What a myopic view of tariffs you have. You take a glass half empty approach to tariffs when there is no need for it. I get it. You're a Never Trumper. A dying breed by the way.

I am not a Never Trumper, I am an economist and a realist who knows that Trump is an economic illiterate.

My view of tariffs is that they are government interference in the free market and that they increase the cost of living for Americans. I have stated that and shown it many times, and neither you nor anyone else has provided evidence to the contrary. Even Trump's campaign people in 2016 said that his trade policies would increase the cost of living by 10-15%. I have posted that here several times and no Trumpster has ever tried to respond to it.

So what is your "glass half full" take on tariffs and government managed trade? How do they help Americans? Trump says he will create more American jobs, all evidence to the contrary. Manufacturing jobs are being lost to automation. Tariffs on solar panels have had a big negative impact on installer jobs. The housing industry has been hurt by lumber tariffs. Ford is laying off thousands of workers because of steel tariffs.

And the icing on the tariff cake is that steel tariffs, which were supposed to give the American steel industry a big boost, aren't helping.

"The steel stocks have been slaughtered since the tariffs went into effect," CNBC's Jim Cramer, the exuberant host of Mad Money, said on his show last week. Kramer actually apologized to his viewers for having recommended Nucor stock several months ago—assuming, as many observers did, that the tariffs would protect American steelmakers from competition and allow them to earn more. That hasn't happened because of the tariffs' unintended consequences, Kramer concluded.

"The bottom line is that even the supposed winners from tariffs aren't winning here," he said. "This is simply the wrong time in the business cycle to own a steelmaker."

President Donald Trump still seems to believe the tariffs are working, despite mounting evidence to the contrary. But no matter how many times the president brags about nonexistent new steel plants opening up, the stock market isn't lying.

Now Nucor is telling investors to prepare for the slide to continue. In a press release last week, the company said it expects earnings to decrease in 2018's fourth quarter.
Because tariffs artificially increase the cost of imported goods, the main losers from the administration's steel tariffs have been steel-consuming industries—everything from automakers (such as Ford) and manufacturers of heavy machinery (such as Caterpillar) to small companies that make beer kegs, nails, and industrial parts. Trump pitched his tariffs as a way to protect blue-collar jobs in the United States, but the decision to slap import taxes on steel was effectively a promise to protect the interests of steelmakers at the expense of thousands of other industries.

http://reason.com/blog/2018/10/29/tr...ers-losing-too

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by Clocker

I am not a Never Trumper, I am an economist and a realist who knows that Trump is an economic illiterate.

Ah, it becomes more clear now. I will let Trump's economics degree from Wharton and 50 years of experience as an entrepreneur and his involvement in international business and trade speak for itself.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Clocker

Not true.

America can only produce about 2/3 of the lumber we use, most of the rest comes from Canada. Trump's tariffs on Canadian lumber have added about $6000 to the cost of the average single family home. What is the option for a new home buyer?

An Alcoa subsidiary processes aluminum ore in Canada before it is shipped to the US for final production. Alcoa has to pay tariffs on imports from its own subsidiary, and pass them on to consumers. What is the option for customer of Alcoa and other aluminum companies?

American steel producers have raised prices under the protection of tariffs on imported steel. What are the options of companies that use steel as an input to their production, or to the customers of those companies?

To the extent that consumers can avoid tariffs by purchasing American made goods, or be forced to by economics, Trump's own campaign people pre-election said that such tariffs would add 10-15% to the cost of living of the average American. None of the "other options" to tariffs are economically beneficial.

I for one would rather have the choice.

where did you see that additional $6,000 additional on a house due to lumber tariffs. I built homes for a dozen years and that is rather hard to believe

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by tucker6

Ah, it becomes more clear now. I will let Trump's economics degree from Wharton and 50 years of experience as an entrepreneur and his involvement in international business and trade speak for itself.

You still won't address the issues. As to Trump, he studied economics at Wharton in the 1960's, when the mainstream economics being taught was all about marginal consumption and the government fine-tuning the economy. All of that was going to put an end to recessions. I learned the same thing in the '70s as an undergrad and later in grad school. It has all since been debunked. Most of us put that aside and learned the reality of economics. Trump is still living in the '60s.

Trump's experience is in real estate. Real estate is not imported or exported or manufactured, but he thinks he knows all about those aspects of economics. He does have some experience in trade, such as his clothing line. Which he has made overseas and imports, without tariffs.

I keep hearing name calling, like Never Trumper. I keep hearing about how brilliant Trump is. But what I don't hear around here is evidence as to why tariffs aren't helping the economy, or why higher consumer prices are a good thing, or at least acceptable. Or why the government should be making that decision.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by Clocker

You still won't address the issues. As to Trump, he studied economics at Wharton in the 1960's, when the mainstream economics being taught was all about marginal consumption and the government fine-tuning the economy. All of that was going to put an end to recessions. I learned the same thing in the '70s as an undergrad and later in grad school. It has all since been debunked. Most of us put that aside and learned the reality of economics. Trump is still living in the '60s.

Trump's experience is in real estate. Real estate is not imported or exported or manufactured, but he thinks he knows all about those aspects of economics. He does have some experience in trade, such as his clothing line. Which he has made overseas and imports, without tariffs.

I keep hearing name calling, like Never Trumper. I keep hearing about how brilliant Trump is. But what I don't hear around here is evidence as to why tariffs aren't helping the economy, or why higher consumer prices are a good thing, or at least acceptable. Or why the government should be making that decision.

Tariffs are not a short term economic boost. Your vaunted economics understanding surely tells you that. Tariffs are designed by Trump are intended as the short term price for the long term gain.

I'll still trust Trump's economic practical experience over your "understanding" of economics any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by tucker6

Tariffs are designed by Trump are intended as the short term price for the long term gain.

I'll still trust Trump's economic practical experience over your "understanding" of economics any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

A 10-15% increase in the cost of living, the Trump campaign's own estimate, is the "short term" price for what long term gain? How will that work? I didn't ask you to trust my "understanding", I asked you to look at the facts. Look at what the federal government meddling with the free market has done before and is doing now, whether it be tariffs or quotas or any other regulations. Free trade is between a buyer and a seller. If they agree on a deal, why do the feds need to get involved?

You still won't discuss the issues, but make it all about personality. Trump is right because Trump is Trump. Anyone that disagrees with Trump is a Trump hater. You provide no other reason to believe that Trump's foreign trade policies will work.

I have provided facts and figures about the harms of tariffs, and the only response has been that Trump knows best. No response about the facts posted. No response about the increase in cost of living to consumers.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by chadk66

where did you see that additional $6,000 additional on a house due to lumber tariffs. I built homes for a dozen years and that is rather hard to believe

Oops, I was wrong.

Homebuilders and potential new-home buyers are getting squeezed from a spike in lumber prices. Tariffs on Canadian lumber are adding to higher costs for wood, which are fueling price increases of up to $9,000 for a new single-family home, according to the National Association of Homebuilders.


The industry group met with Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross on Tuesday to plead their case to relax the tariffs on Canadian lumber, which they say are adding to supply woes as the price of lumber is skyrocketing.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lumber-...n-more-costly/

[JustRalph]

“Up too” is a broad statement

Depends on the size of the house

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

“Up too” is a broad statement

Depends on the size of the house

This article says $10K more for lumber for a house in the $200K range in Wisconsin.

https://www.leadertelegram.com/news/...861057676.html

[ElKabong]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckde...vZ6pKDGb1ByBGg

trying to keep my post as brief as possible, so much to cover

1 , Texas, and the Dallas suburbs in particular are notorious for offering tax breaks for large corps HQs such as Toyota,, major insurance companies etc

2, this has grown the tax base here immensely. These people buy homes, cars, spend money (we have an 8cnt sales tax here). They have good careers / jobs, have a decent amount of expendable income.

3, I'd say fully half, likely more, of our family business clientele comes from such people; employees of the larger corporations that move to the northern burbs of the metroplex.

4, because of all the above, my family can afford to save a decent nest egg for retirement, buy my wife a new car of her choice, go to the coast whenever we can find the time from the business, support my wife's I'll father, as well as her single parent son and grand daughter

It's hard for me to knock tax breaks of any kind. Esp when you see how taxes are spent ( on that I think we all agree). When you think of how far the tentacles reach when it comes to tax breaks, it seems to me to be a positive. I'm no economist, but it's working here quite well. Locally, it's working here.

Again, I'm not an economist, don't pretend to know what economists know. But I do recall the tax and spend mindset of Texas democrats in the 1970s, how it affected both of my parents' businesses back then. I wish they had the economic environment we enjoy today.

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by Clocker

This article says $10K more for lumber for a house in the $200K range in Wisconsin.

https://www.leadertelegram.com/news/...861057676.html

I can tell you straight up that is a load of bullshit. 10k increase would be a huge percentage. The actual lumber that this tariff affects is the least cost in a home. And a 200k home would be a pretty small lumber cost. On a 200k home that would drive the lumber costs up close to 50% and we both know that would be ridiculous

[jimmyb]

According to the Washington Post, U.S. workers see fastest wage growth in a decade, outpacing inflation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.1f6b633c87ad

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by jimmyb

According to the Washington Post, U.S. workers see fastest wage growth in a decade, outpacing inflation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.1f6b633c87ad

More winning. And job numbers were higher in than expected this month