Thomas Amoss....No Class

[Big Peps]

I must have missed the new rule in racing where trainers/owners aren't allowed to drop horses in claiming races. we get it you singled the horse in the pick 5 or something similar and were tearing tickets up at the turn.

He wins first off claim, took him for 30, dropped him at Saratoga for 20 which is probably a move up in class. What is he suppose to do? If horse runs well, he gets the purse and the clain and walks away with $44,000 and ahead $$ on the claim

You have no idea what type of shape the horse was in prior to the race. Sure he probably had some issues, doesn't mean he wasn't fit to race off the 100 days. Tom Amoss claims a ton of horses and does it quite well. He ran in the stake the same day and actually ran quite well with a filly he claimed for 25K, same filly that won the FG Oaks. Two horses that beat him are just OK. ( kidding of course)

Don't like the horse? Don't bet him and don't claim him. At this level, you always have to wonder why they are there. He was either a single or bet against. Like I said though, maybe the owner wanted to run at Saratoga and where else is that horse going to run at this meet and have a chance. I highly doubt he shipped the horse all the way up here just to lose him, could have must easier dropped him further at Ellis and accomplished that.

In addition, the horse was claimed and it wasn't voided. Will never understand the venom against trainers who play the claiming game and drop.

[bello]

I appreciate the responses and the overwhelming disagreement, really. For the record I did nit play the race but admittedly looked at it with a bias before it ran.

I was hoping the horse would do well and the owner and trainer had the balls to jam him into a winning spot to win at the Spa. Instead I saw an awful performance which IMO showed quite the opposite, an infirm horse trying to be unloaded.

One of the things I love about racing is the claiming game. There is no better example of true capitalism, risk taking and entrepreneurship. The American way.

I understand horses slow down and have aches and pains. I have no objection to them racing and being part of the claiming game.

What I object to is racing a horse that is obviously unfit to race to get them claimed.

That was my conclusion.

The thread has played itself out. CJ or PA, feel free to remove it. The mistake I made was naming names and making it personal. Should have kept comments generic.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by bello

What I object to is racing a horse that is obviously unfit to race to get them claimed.

If what you state is true, why do they have vets do pre-race examinations? Are you saying they overlooked or worse yet, looked the other way when an "infirmed" horse was presented to race that day?

[bello]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

If what you state is true, why do they have vets do pre-race examinations? Are you saying they overlooked or worse yet, looked the other way when an "infirmed" horse was presented to race that day?

I am NOT saying they intentionally or purposely overlooked anything

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by bello

I am NOT saying they intentionally or purposely overlooked anything

OK, that's good. I didn't state that you wrote this. But it would be a natural conclusion based on what you DID WRITE: that an "OBVIOUSLY UNFIT TO RACE" horse was allowed to run.

Going by what you just wrote, it was only obvious that the horse was unfit to race AFTER the race was over...but even that is debatable.

Not every horse that finishes up the track is "unfit to race."

[bello]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

OK, that's good. I didn't state that you wrote this. But it would be a natural conclusion based on what you DID WRITE: that an "OBVIOUSLY UNFIT TO RACE" horse was allowed to run.

Going by what you just wrote, it was only obvious that the horse was unfit to race AFTER the race was over...but even that is debatable.

Not every horse that finishes up the track is "unfit to race."

Agreed, I made the observation based on the circumstances and the race itself. I also admit I may have been incorrect. If the horse was indeed claimed and the claim was not voided I stand even more likely to be corrected. Like I mentioned, I watched the race hoping the owners were pulling one over in a positive way by jamming the horse into a winning spot to pick up the W at the spa meet but was expecting the worst. Exactly why the race was unbettable since I didn't have a clue to what that answer was. When I saw him being eased the final few yards it looked bad. Hopefully he was an exhausted horse tiring badly from the speed dual with Ortiz easing up ( classy move) and he will race again.

[Big Peps]

Thanks for clarifying your point/ opinion a bit, certainly see what you are saying.

At the end of the day the horse got beat by 11 lengths was pressed the entire way off 100 day layoff. Plain fitness could also be an issue. The work tab is sporadic at best but I find that quite common with Amoss and a lot of Louisiana bred trainers.

Lets see what gary gullo does with him off the claim. Gary is not only good off claim but good with dirt sprinters. He also is not scared to drop one, so depending on where he comes back will be a nice indicator of how good a shape the horse came out of the race in.

I have claimed a few horses off Amoss and they came out of races in pretty good forum. I don't think he would have the client list he has if he wasn't good at what he does and I hardly consider him one of the issues with the claiming game, I could name a few but won't.

[bello]

Tied Up, The horse that performed so poorly in the Spa opener at 40 cents is returning off the claiming drop is racing for Gary Gullo in race 3 at Belmont today. I truly hope she fares better off the lay-off. She would be better served trying to stalk and avoiding the speed dual with the same horses that she got involves with early 6 weeks ago. In any event she is risky IMO. Races sets up nicely for a closer #7

[Valuist]

I'm still trying to wrap my arms around this entire thread. Is Amoss low class because he dropped a horse in class off a layoff and big win? Is it because he's a "Midwesterner" coming to the hallowed grounds of Saratoga?

I've never heard anyone on here personally rip Amoss before. Is there some other agenda we don't know about?

[airford1]

Originally Posted by Valuist

I'm still trying to wrap my arms around this entire thread. Is Amoss low class because he dropped a horse in class off a layoff and big win? Is it because he's a "Midwesterner" coming to the hallowed grounds of Saratoga?

I've never heard anyone on here personally rip Amoss before. Is there some other agenda we don't know about?

Yes the whole point is to figure out the secret agenda. Like Dueling.

[Afleet]

ran 5th or second to last whichever you prefer and was not claimed-go figure

[bello]

Originally Posted by Afleet

ran 5th or second to last whichever you prefer and was not claimed-go figure

Unfortunately and obviously she has a huge hole in her and will now be likely sold, shipped out of NYRA and begin her descent to the bottom.

Horse will keep racing and losing. Best outcome would be in 4.5 furlong 5k claimers at CTown filling races

[elhelmete]

Look who finished 16+ lengths behind the winner here:

http://www.equibase.com/premium/char...18&cy=USA&rn=8

[bello]

Originally Posted by elhelmete

Look who finished 16+ lengths behind the winner here:

http://www.equibase.com/premium/char...18&cy=USA&rn=8

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...ore-than-fine/

Yep Michelle Yu. He sure got his confidence back over the winter.

https://www.horseracingnation.com/horse/Chips_All_In

[Thomas Roulston]

Originally Posted by Someday Silent

I'm surprised to hear that Saratoga even cards $20k claiming races.

There were some open $12.5k claiming races, as well as some $14k N3Ls, at the just-concluded Saratoga meet.

The cheapest maiden claiming races were $20k.