27 Dead in Conn School shooting

[nijinski]

While I understand some who have said how difficult it is to raise a child like him . I do understand and I've seen both moderate and severe autistic children who are partly mainstreamed in schools . Their parents have a struggle most will never know . Amazing people , who in many cases , could not afford the extra help needed . In this case , both parents had the means to avail him with the proper care . Both in insurance and income .

I will never understand how the Mom could keep these firearms in the home with him . It was a disaster waiting to happen that unfortunately did .

[Robert Goren]

A few decades ago states started closing mental institutions and went to community based mental health programs. This hailed as a great idea at the time. The problem is/was the funding for the programs never developed at any level. Unless somebody is willing to fund mental programs, more this kind of stuff is going happen at increasing rate. And that doesn't touch the mental problems of returning vets who, for lack of better phrase, have just seen too much. That is another ticking time bomb that no one wants deal with because of costs.

[Robert Fischer]

don't they have some sort of social-coach for kids like this?

Especially if the family has money, you would think some private company would offer such a service.

I don't know where I heard that the mom had just returned from a 4 day vacation? It seems a week in vegas with a social-coach would have done a lot of good with this kid.

[fast4522]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

A few decades ago states started closing mental institutions and went to community based mental health programs. This hailed as a great idea at the time. The problem is/was the funding for the programs never developed at any level. Unless somebody is willing to fund mental programs, more this kind of stuff is going happen at increasing rate. And that doesn't touch the mental problems of returning vets who, for lack of better phrase, have just seen too much. That is another ticking time bomb that no one wants deal with because of costs.

You guys are just as thick as they come, there is no more money. Every thing you want has been scrapped because we will not borrow from China to please you. Mid term elections in every President's second term are always a nightmare for the Presidents party, and by then it will be a good idea to push you over the cliff so think about that.

[jdhanover]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

A few decades ago states started closing mental institutions and went to community based mental health programs. This hailed as a great idea at the time. The problem is/was the funding for the programs never developed at any level. Unless somebody is willing to fund mental programs, more this kind of stuff is going happen at increasing rate. And that doesn't touch the mental problems of returning vets who, for lack of better phrase, have just seen too much. That is another ticking time bomb that no one wants deal with because of costs.

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately I am learning this as my son approaches adulthood. He is not as severe a case as this kid was (thankfully) but the help really gets sparse once he graduates next year.

A lot of this is priorities - what do we spend $ on? ALL politicians (both sides, for many years) make lots of decisions on spending money that would be better spent here.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by fast4522

You guys are just as thick as they come, there is no more money. Every thing you want has been scrapped because we will not borrow from China to please you. Mid term elections in every President's second term are always a nightmare for the Presidents party, and by then it will be a good idea to push you over the cliff so think about that.

It happened during the Reagan years (or before). Mental health was never a federal concern. Its costs were always taken care of by state government. When the states began to close their asylums in the late 1970s and early 1980s, they promised monetary help to local government that were now responsible for mental health. The aid in most states never came.
The responsibility for our return vets should that of the federal government. If we enough money to fight wars, then it is us that should take care of the brave soldiers who fought in them. I realise this a concept completely foreign to to right wing ideologues such as you and Dick Cheney. Just call them fakers you and the hell with them. That was Cheney way and you seem to adopted it.
Never mind the costs of ignoring the problems in both human lives and monetarily when these problems explode in our faces. Just continue ramble on about China owning our debt. That is the new mantra of the far right when faced something they don't want to face. The problems don't go away because you don't want pay to fix them. There are going to be more school shooting with or without armed people at schools. There is going to be more shooting at malls and work places unless we act. That is the truth whether you want to admit it or not. In the mean time, go shoot up a bunch paper targets while shouting your right wing propaganda at the top of your voice. It will take your mind off the real problems this country faces and make you feel better about not dealing with them in any sort of meaningful way.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by hcap

Maybe we should

..Unless we are remembering Pearl Harbor or 911, we don't have moment of silence for many historical tragedies, but often we have moments of silence for ongoing tragic events

I will agree that the media is milking events for profit. But we need a kick in the ass to do something that has to be done. Gun control in general, including licensing and greater restrictions including high capacity magazines and closing the gun show loophole of zero background checks

That should be part of a larger set of restrictions. Hopefully it is a beginning

Okay I figured I'd throw out my stance on the issue. First a couple of things regarding the shootings. There really was nothing that could have been done legislatively on the gun side to prevent the most recent shootings in Colorado, Oregon, and Connecticut. The Colorado guy snapped and in both Oregon and Connecticut the guns were stolen. There really isn't anything that the legal system could have done with gun ownership to prevent them.

Changes I would support would be background checks on all firearm sales including private. Retailers could simply charge a fee for processing the transaction and that would be the end of it.

We should have laws in place that if your firearm is used in a crime and hasn't been reported stolen within the first 24 hours it was noticed missing you are to be charged as a accomplice in said crime. Some states may already have these JR would probably know.

Firearm education should be compulsory in public schools.

Those are three I would have no problem seeing implemented. As far as the banning of "Assault weapons" I think its a moronic idea. There really is not such thing as a "assault" weapon its largely a media creation. While it sounds nice there is no way it creates any meaningful prevention as evidenced by the existence of one from 1994-2004 and the fact since its expiring homicide rates are down and "assault" weapons make up probably less than 2 or 1% of homicides. As for limiting the size of magazines again I don't know what purpose that serves, A) I don't think its possible and B) So what a person just carries more magazines. Feel good measures but really not a solution to anything.

Finally, there is the idea of a national firearm registry. I am personally 110% against the creation of such a list but would actually prefer it to just arbitrarily banning things.

Those are some things a gun guy thinks you could do. Again none of these would have prevented the recent shootings but I truly feel there wasn't anything on the firearm side that could have prevented them. You can't legislate crazy away.

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Okay I figured I'd throw out my stance on the issue. First a couple of things regarding the shootings. There really was nothing that could have been done legislatively on the gun side to prevent the most recent shootings in Colorado, Oregon, and Connecticut. The Colorado guy snapped and in both Oregon and Connecticut the guns were stolen. There really isn't anything that the legal system could have done with gun ownership to prevent them.

Changes I would support would be background checks on all firearm sales including private. Retailers could simply charge a fee for processing the transaction and that would be the end of it.

We should have laws in place that if your firearm is used in a crime and hasn't been reported stolen within the first 24 hours it was noticed missing you are to be charged as a accomplice in said crime. Some states may already have these JR would probably know.

Firearm education should be compulsory in public schools.

Those are three I would have no problem seeing implemented. As far as the banning of "Assault weapons" I think its a moronic idea. There really is not such thing as a "assault" weapon its largely a media creation. While it sounds nice there is no way it creates any meaningful prevention as evidenced by the existence of one from 1994-2004 and the fact since its expiring homicide rates are down and "assault" weapons make up probably less than 2 or 1% of homicides. As for limiting the size of magazines again I don't know what purpose that serves, A) I don't think its possible and B) So what a person just carries more magazines. Feel good measures but really not a solution to anything.

Finally, there is the idea of a national firearm registry. I am personally 110% against the creation of such a list but would actually prefer it to just arbitrarily banning things.

Those are some things a gun guy thinks you could do. Again none of these would have prevented the recent shootings but I truly feel there wasn't anything on the firearm side that could have prevented them. You can't legislate crazy away.

The stats on assault weapon numbers are skewed by the fact most homicides are one or two victims by killed by someone they know. How to stop them is an entirely different question than how stop these mass shooting that have happen recently. It appears that most of the mass murders involve an assault weapon. There are no doubt exceptions which I am sure will be pointed out. All of the mall shooting that I can recall used an assault weapon. You aren't going to get off a couple hundred rounds in few minutes using one of John Wayne's six shooters.

[Robert Goren]

Compulsory fire arm education just isn't going to happen for a lot of reasons.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

1) The stats on assault weapon numbers are skewed by the fact most homicides are one or two victims by killed by someone they know.

2) It appears that most of the mass murders involve an assault weapon.

How do you know 1 and 2? Are there FBI stats available?

[Robert Goren]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

How do you know 1 and 2? Are there FBI stats available?

I am sure there are. You can do a google search for them if you want. Anybody who watches the local news knows that 1 is true. Watching the national news will lead you to believe that 2 is true. If you find FBI stats to prove me wrong, I will admit it. I have been wrong before here and have admitted it. If fact, PA got me to do it last week. But in this case I don't think you will prove me wrong nor am I willing to waste my time trying to prove to me what is obvious. Take your best shot at it, if you wish. Google to your heart's content.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

I am sure there are. You can do a google search for them if you want. Anybody who watches the local news knows that 1 is true. Watching the national news will lead you to believe that 2 is true. If you find FBI stats to prove me wrong, I will admit it. I have been wrong before here and have admitted it. If fact, PA got me to do it last week. But in this case I don't think you will prove me wrong nor am I willing to waste my time trying to prove to me what is obvious. Take your best shot at it, if you wish. Google to your heart's content.

So you just throw stuff out not knowing whether it is fact or fiction, and ask others to prove you wrong?

Oh, that's right. You have admitted on more than one occasion that you like to press people's buttons...bordering on troll-like...

[Robert Goren]

Ok, here they are for 2010
http://ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/ezashr/asp/off_display.asp

Row Family Acquaintance Stranger UnknownTotal
2010 15.3% 41.5% 21.0% 22.2% 100.0%