This man is about to die...

[NJ Stinks]

The video below shows the two guys arguing before the man was pushed onto the tracks. You can see some people in the background but the station wasn't crowded. It's from the NY Daily News website:

http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/vi...on=nydailynews

[Greybase]

Ho Hum, another beautiful day in the Big Apple

Seriously, ever heard of Kitty Genovese? This kind of stuff has been the popular image of big USA cities - and especially New York City - for 50 years...

I was a baby at the time, but recall hearing about the Genovese case growing up, a story that persisted during the 70s. Woman stabbed to death right in front of dozens of onlookers in Brooklyn. Nobody says or does anything. Keep in mind this was VERY shocking back then. In 2012 ??

Murder of Kitty Genovese NYC

[JustRalph]

Let me stir the pot


Too bad Bernie Goetz wasn't there.

[atlasaxis]

Remember Mr. Autrey? Thank God for someone like him, I know Mr. Hollopeter did!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/03/nyregion/03life.html

[ArlJim78]

one part of this story which doesn't pass the smell test is that the photographer was trying to signal the train using his flash. yeah right. how convenient that this frantic heroic effort to signal the train happened to result in a perfectly positioned photo from behind the perspective of the victim.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

one part of this story which doesn't pass the smell test is that the photographer was trying to signal the train using his flash. yeah right. how convenient that this frantic heroic effort to signal the train happened to result in a perfectly positioned photo from behind the perspective of the victim.

If there is anything more disturbing than the fact that no one ran to this man's aid, it's that someone stood there taking pictures of the whole thing.

What sort of person claims that his first impulse, at a time like this, was to run towards the train while frashing his camera...in order to warn the conductor? Why not run towards the man...and try to help him off the tracks?

The poor guy was struggling to get himself unto the platform for over a minute; are we suppossed to believe that he never uttered a sound in the meantime...to let the others there know what was going on?

This apathy that New Yorkers have been labeled with may not be a myth after all...

[Marshall Bennett]

I suppose every human reacts differently in such a dire situation. It's not for me to judge what one is suppose to do or what should have been done.
What I will judge is the Post's decision to publish the photo on its front page. What good does it do? Many more are disrespected than are benefited from doing so. There are avenues on the net I'm sure to pursue this desire to see people about to die, why shove it in the faces of millions that subscribe to a daily newspaper?
Another example of a deteriorating society. Moral values are out the window once again.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If there is anything more disturbing than the fact that no one ran to this man's aid, it's that someone stood there taking pictures of the whole thing.

What sort of person claims that his first impulse, at a time like this, was to run towards the train while frashing his camera...in order to warn the conductor? Why not run towards the man...and try to help him off the tracks?

The poor guy was struggling to get himself unto the platform for over a minute; are we suppossed to believe that he never uttered a sound in the meantime...to let the others there know what was going on?

This apathy that New Yorkers have been labeled with may not be a myth after all...

couple thoughts;
yes the picture taking is disturbing.
but the rest is just speculation imo. not being there you don't know how this really played out in realtime. was it really as you suspect people standing around totally indifferent to the mans plight? or did it happen quickly with futile efforts to save him. i think it's harsh to pass judgement on people or a city without actually being there and witnessing it.

let's face it, going over that wall is a death sentence. a natural first reaction with a man there and a train coming is to think that going up next to that edge and having the man grab on to you puts YOUR life greatly at risk once he starts grabbing on to your arm what's to stop you from going over? with a bit of time to think maybe they could have made a human chain to yank him out.

if it were my wife or daughter, yeah I know I would do whatever it took at whatever risk to myself. in this situation with a stranger and a train approaching? I think I would be very nervous about going to that edge without being secured by someone/something.

why couldn't they design in some foot inlays/steps in the wall, so that a person who fell or got pushed over had a chance to extricate himself and not be consigned to a death sentence?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

couple thoughts;
yes the picture taking is disturbing.
but the rest is just speculation imo. not being there you don't know how this really played out in realtime. was it really as you suspect people standing around totally indifferent to the mans plight? or did it happen quickly with futile efforts to save him. i think it's harsh to pass judgement on people or a city without actually being there and witnessing it.

let's face it, going over that wall is a death sentence. a natural first reaction with a man there and a train coming is to think that going up next to that edge and having the man grab on to you puts YOUR life greatly at risk once he starts grabbing on to your arm what's to stop you from going over? with a bit of time to think maybe they could have made a human chain to yank him out.

if it were my wife or daughter, yeah I know I would do whatever it took at whatever risk to myself. in this situation with a stranger and a train approaching? I think I would be very nervous about going to that edge without being secured by someone/something.

why couldn't they design in some foot inlays/steps in the wall, so that a person who fell or got pushed over had a chance to extricate himself and not be consigned to a death sentence?

You say it's speculation...

Here is a video which shows the scene shortly before the man -- whose face is hidden -- is pushed onto the tracks by the man who is arguing with him.

http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/vi...on=nydailynews

How far do the other people appear to be from where he is?

It was reported that the man was on the tracks for more than a minute before he was hit by the train. And yet, no one ran to his aid...

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

You say it's speculation...

Here is a video which shows the scene shortly before the man -- whose face is hidden -- is pushed onto the tracks by the man who is arguing with him.

http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/vi...on=nydailynews

How far do the other people appear to be from where he is?

It was reported that the man was on the tracks for more than a minute before he was hit by the train. And yet, no one ran to his aid...

yes I say it's speculation because that video doesn't show what happened. how long after that did the push occur? were those people in the video background still there when it happened? none of us know the answer.

you say one minute, but in the Times interview I found this,

"At one point, the man said to have shoved Mr. Han came toward Mr. Abbasi, he said, so he backed up against a wall, still flashing his camera. He estimated the victim was on the tracks for 10 or 15 seconds before he was struck"

not a lot of time for any kind of a rescue.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

This apathy that New Yorkers have been labeled with may not be a myth after all...

It's one of the signs of the times. It's written in scripture that in these last days, the hearts of men will grow cold.

Boxcar

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

"At one point, the man said to have shoved Mr. Han came toward Mr. Abbasi, he said, so he backed up against a wall, still flashing his camera. He estimated the victim was on the tracks for 10 or 15 seconds before he was struck"

that looks like it may be more of the same dubious info from the photographer (Mr. Abbasi is the photographer).
Now not only was Abbasi flashing his camera in attempts to warn the driver, he was also according to that story approached by the man who shoved Mr. Han onto the tracks.... , not only that Abbasi claims he only had 10 or 15 seconds...



Witnesses told police that the man (Han) was on the track a minute - 90seconds before the train came.
"Han had been in a heated exchange with a man — who police described as emotionally disturbed and talking to himself — when he was thrown off the Seventh Avenue platform as other straphangers looked on.

More than a minute — and possibly as long as 90 seconds — elasped before the train slammed into him, a police source said."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...p_ref=new-york




I don't blame the photographer for filming if he had no idea or way to help. I think even war has a place for photography. However the photographers account of events (desperately flashing distress signals that somehow capture centered photographs , and now the being approached/cornered by the suspect but all of it happening within only 15 seconds anyway .... ) comes across as twisted lies.
Maybe he just seems like a P.O.S. ?
Sometimes a traumatic event can distort the sense of time, and sometimes a traumatic event can cause you to rationalize or justify your actions during the trauma as a coping mechanism. Without actually being a witness I don't know for sure that the photographer is a P.O.S., and it isn't really fair to act like I'm 1000% certain.

I also don't fault the man for selling his photograph and story to the press.

[DJofSD]

First, I used to carry my camera equipment around with me just about every where I went. On many occasions, I stumbled upon something which resulted in my taking photos. Some times it was tragic circumstances but never anything like a person about to die. Dead bodies, yes, but never anything like the topic of this thread. The point being, I can put myself into the shoes of the photographer and I would defend his actions.

To believe the photographer could have literally lent a hand to save the other man's life assumes too much. And I'll press the point further by saying if the survivors were to sue the photographer for something like wrongful death, I highly doubt they'd win the case.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by DJofSD

First, I used to carry my camera equipment around with me just about every where I went. On many occasions, I stumbled upon something which resulted in my taking photos. Some times it was tragic circumstances but never anything like a person about to die. Dead bodies, yes, but never anything like the topic of this thread. The point being, I can put myself into the shoes of the photographer and I would defend his actions.

To believe the photographer could have literally lent a hand to save the other man's life assumes too much. And I'll press the point further by saying if the survivors were to sue the photographer for something like wrongful death, I highly doubt they'd win the case.

Is it assuming too much to expect the photographer to think of the doomed man first...instead of primarily thinking about taking pictures of the "inevitable"?

After all...isn't he a human being first, and a photographer second?

[DJofSD]

That's a false dichotomy.

Do you absolutely know the photographer could have saved the man?

What would you say if the photograph had attempted to assist but was also killed?