Keeping actual physical racetracks alive--attendance

[WinterTriangle]

This is something that perplexes me and I've wanted to discuss.

With gambling becoming more of a "sit behind your computer" or simulcast activity ala Wall Street, which is fine, but a lot of people simply don't go to the track anymore.

So, we are constantly having conversations about crumbling infrastrcutures or (taken from another topic):

Originally Posted by thespaah

Treat customers as though they were valued guests instead of a tolerated necessary evil. Wagering vouchers. Perks for their subsequent visits. Overall, copy the playbook of casinos. Oh yeah, big bettors should get big perks. Treat the high rollers like honored guests. Keep them coming to the track

Then we talk about not wanting casinos at racetracks.

What I'm wondering is, if people don't actually GO to the track, then we really can't have these huge physical structures, buildiings and bathrooms and seats and such, looking like ghost-towns.

It's waste of real estate and infrastructure.

Mabye the reason racing "customers" aren't put first is because there are so few of them --- I mean, people have to be somewhere to get treated like honored guests. Catering to a population that is *tiny* isn't something practical.

My idea is that track facilities that don't have casinos may be practically lying dormant since everyone is betting with software and offshore and with AWDs. To keep racing alive you have to keep tracks where the horses are running alive. They can't be falling apart, and they can't be ghostowns.

Maybe they should just close some of them if they no longer have any physical attendance.

In Japan, they are packing huge stadium like buildings. But if betting behind a computer at home is what horse racing has become for some, then there really is no reason to have huge racetrack facilities, is there????? Why pay for building maintenance and landscaping and such? You can't pay for lights, A/C, heat, fast food employees, clerks, elevator people......if there are no actual human beings INSIDE your facility!

In those places, if there is no casino, and therefore, not enough actual foot-traffic on a regular basis, perhaps they should either close tem, , or have the actual horse track itself remain, but build other stuff around it, like the build gated communities, lakes and parks around golf courses. There could still be barns, and horses on the track to be broadcast on TV and to your computer screen, but you don't need *seats* for customers if there aren't any *customers* sitting in them?????????

Explain this to me and give feedback. It's not an opinion so much as a scenario that passes in my mind at times.

Personally, I don't think racing will ever experience any kind of "rebirth" until it is attended, in person, as a form of entertainment, where families can go for the day, just as they would go to a water park. In Japan, they have this. If we don't, then something needs to be done. Horseplayers who don't go to the track can't very well expect them to stay open, can they?

[thaskalos]

The racetracks owners found themselves in a very awkward situation.

Some of them - like the owner of Arlington Park - built glamorous racetracks, initially thinking that the people would flock to them. They failed to realize that the OTBs and the internet would turn these "palaces" into ghost towns.

Now that the inevitable has happened...they are lying to themselves by either thinking that the horseplayers will return, or that the state laws will take pity on them and permit slots and then full-scale casinos to be erected on the premises.

[Dave Schwartz]

Take a look at Horsemen's Park. Wonderful facility and good attendance WITHOUT LIVE RACING!

How do they do it? By marketing to their customer and giving them what they want.

What is that? Well, among other things, a really comfortable simulcast facility. One that is conducive to playing with a computer - lots of TVs.

If the tracks want people to come back - in the marketing biz they call this "recovering customers" - they're going to have to give them something for their trip to the track that makes it worth their while to travel.

A great way to do it would be to offer rebates that are only available if you were on track. Another thing they could do is offer rebates for specific races payable only after a specific race. For example, a special DD rebate that can only be redeemed after (say) the 5th race.

Another idea would be a "rolling rebate." Bet the 1st race and get a rebate before the 3rd. The 2nd race gets rebated before the 4th.

Another idea is to combine part of the rebate money into prizes payable to random players. I don't mean one big hit like a pick 6 but rather (say) 50 winners drawn after each race starting with the 3rd race. The total returned to each player that is drawn is directly proportionate to his percentage wagered relative to the other winners.

This kind of stuff accomplishes several things:
1. It keeps people at the track for the next draw.
2. It adds rebate money back into TODAY'S pools.
3. It gives people who go broke a chance to get money to play with in the next race.

[jamey1977]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

Take a look at Horsemen's Park. Wonderful facility and good attendance WITHOUT LIVE RACING!

How do they do it? By marketing to their customer and giving them what they want.

What is that? Well, among other things, a really comfortable simulcast facility. One that is conducive to playing with a computer - lots of TVs.

If the tracks want people to come back - in the marketing biz they call this "recovering customers" - they're going to have to give them something for their trip to the track that makes it worth their while to travel.

A great way to do it would be to offer rebates that are only available if you were on track. Another thing they could do is offer rebates for specific races payable only after a specific race. For example, a special DD rebate that can only be redeemed after (say) the 5th race.

Another idea would be a "rolling rebate." Bet the 1st race and get a rebate before the 3rd. The 2nd race gets rebated before the 4th.

Another idea is to combine part of the rebate money into prizes payable to random players. I don't mean one big hit like a pick 6 but rather (say) 50 winners drawn after each race starting with the 3rd race. The total returned to each player that is drawn is directly proportionate to his percentage wagered relative to the other winners.

This kind of stuff accomplishes several things:
1. It keeps people at the track for the next draw.
2. It adds rebate money back into TODAY'S pools.
3. It gives people who go broke a chance to get money to play with in the next race.

Rebates only allowed for on-track customers. Brilliant. But if anyone has to show their I.D. many will balk at it. Brilliant ideas, benefits for on-track players only. And give out gifts every damn weekend. Binoculars, T-Shirts, Posters, Give them something. On- Track benefits only. Brilliant idea.

[Stillriledup]

The problem is that the racetracks cant survive without betting. The NFL gets packed stadiums because the product is so good that people will attend the games even though they don't have bets on the games. Our population is essentially saying, "i'll only go to the horseraces if there's a shot i can make some money betting".

Until the races can stand on their own without the need of the betting takeout to keep them afloat, they will always struggle with attendance.

[Robert Goren]

Here in Nebraska(home of Horseman's Park) most of the people who go the track/simulcasts are people who don't want bother with setting up an ADW account.

[trackrat59]

For me, look at my handle, I LOVE live racing. I grew up on the stuff. I think we have to think about three different groups of people.

First, you have the group that prefer to stay at home behind their computer. For the sake of clarity, let's call them the gamblers. They can sit at home, watch TVG or HRTV or watch races on their computer and place their bets. Most likely they are betting more than one track. They are happy doing this. Why go to a track when you can stay at home and bet any track you want to bet at any time in the comfort of your own home?

For the sake of clarity here, let's call the people who really want to be at a track watching live racing the attendees. These people gamble too but prefer to bet the one track that they are at for the day watching live racing.

The third group would be the simulcasters. No more explanation needed. This group is some place in the middle of the gamblers and the attendees. They are content in front of the TVs with the machines and tellers with other people around them. Plus, they can order food. Always a plus.

Deep down I'm an attendee. I love the experience of the track. You know, the ambiance. I want to see the horses and go to the paddock. I have horses and have been around them my whole life so being at the paddock is usually an advantage for me. Some times I can find the winner in the paddock but most often I can figure out a horse or two to throw out. I want to see the horses running and hear them running. I want to be able to get a track hotdog and put mustard on it. I want to smell the cigar smoke in the air outside. I want to people watch. I want to see the trainers reactions while in the paddock. I want to see who is talking to who. I want to use the ticket machines. I want to sit outside on a nice day and watch live racing. Yes, I'm gambling when I'm there. It's not just the gambling it's the track that complets the experience for me.

Here's an example just from yesterday. My racing buddy came over in the morning all depressed with two cups of coffee and woke me up at 7AM. He really wanted to go to Colonial Downs to see the VA Derby. We went last year for the first time. Too difficult of a drive but anyway he had a bad week so he did not mention going prior to Saturday morning. I said, how about I drive us to Delaware Park? I own the "track car". It's a Mini Cooper and that's now our track car. He used to have our track car. A black Caddy. Anyway he said no to Delaware Park. Too far to drive. So, here we are on a Saturday morning and he's depressed because he can't get to Colonial and doesn't feel like driving to Delaware Park because he's already miserable. No live racing for us today. Now, this is the REAL reason my racing buddy is miserable = no live racing for him on this day.

So, I've been telling him that he has to go with me to the Sports Palace at Pimlico one day. (trying to trick a die-hard attendee into being a simulcaster for the day) I told him that the characters in that place are worth a visit. Also, they are nice enough there to charge you $5 to get in and then they hand you a $3 voucher for food. I talked him into it. I told him the TVs, tables, and chairs are much better there than at what he calls "The Hole", the Cracked Claw. So he went and I was able to cheer him up a bit and he appreciated the characters in the Sports Palace, my new pals. The best line I had all day to cheer him up was....As he was sitting in the Sports Palace with his head in his Brisnet sheets, I said, "wouldn't this place be a great venue for a wedding?" You have to have been to Pimlico's Sports Palace to appreciate the comment. I did get my buddy to laugh. On the way home he commented that "maybe we can go to CT tomorrow". I know that's going to get him started since now there is no place to sit at CT if you are an attendee and they don't do much for the attendee at CT and place all the attention on the casino people. That's going to get him depressed again. My buddy is a die-hard attendee.

Now think about this. We could have spent Saturday sitting around my TV and computer getting the job done as gamblers. Na, not us. We are die-hard attendees. I could talk my buddy into going to Pimlico because at least you can say that Pimlico is a track even though we were inside in front of a bunch of TVs being simulcasters for the day. I was able to put a 1/2 smile on my buddy's face but it just didn't do it for him really, sitting in the Sports Palace at Pimlico being a simulcaster.

The state of our game for the future seems to be fewer tracks but nice tracks, better quality horses with bigger purses, large handles, and nice simulcasting facilities. My buddy won't be particularly happy about all of this. I can't say I will either. It will one day be a treat to attend live racing because it will not be available locally all year long. Us attendees are in big trouble. I think the gamblers and simulcasters are going to be ok.

In the mean time while I'm writing this my buddy just called and it's 7:20AM. He tells me, "be at The Hole at 11:15AM. We're going to CT today.

[andymays]

This is for California:

Offer a 50% of takeout rebate on track only with a 25% takeout rebate at Satellite only.

There is no doubt in my mind that on track handle would go up by 4times at least.

Anyone who normally churns 5k or more a day would be foolish not to go to the live track or at least Satellite. There are quite a few people who churn 10k a day and it would certainly make sense to make the trip to the track and maybe stay the weekend.

ADW's would be opposed to this of course so that would create problems.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by Stillriledup

The problem is that the racetracks cant survive without betting. The NFL gets packed stadiums because the product is so good that people will attend the games even though they don't have bets on the games. Our population is essentially saying, "i'll only go to the horseraces if there's a shot i can make some money betting".

Until the races can stand on their own without the need of the betting takeout to keep them afloat, they will always struggle with attendance.

Yeah, no one bets on NFL games....

[Robert Goren]

To get people to come to the track rather sit home betting on the Internet, the need offer people a good time at the track. It is a lot like eating out rather than eating at home. Getting new people to come to the track is whole different ball game and involves marketing and keeping them coming back involves Customer Service, both which are lacking at most race tracks.

[toddbowker]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren

Here in Nebraska(home of Horseman's Park) most of the people who go the track/simulcasts are people who don't want bother with setting up an ADW account.

Well, considering it is illegal in Nebraska currently to have an ADW account by virtue of the State Supreme Court's ruling it unconstitutional in 2002, people pretty much have to go to the tracks there.

Horsemen's Park did get it right in essentially building a simulcast facility instead of a 'traditional racetrack'. It works great for their few days of live racing each year. I think many tracks could become much better facilities for customers if they razed their grandstands and built smaller and higher quality spaces geared to putting on the simulcast program. Operationally it would be much better to have a facility that handles your regular crowd and can be supplemented on a temporary basis for big event days. Wouldn't work for every track, but the vast majority of them would benefit.

Of course that does cost money, something many racetracks have very little of to spend right now.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Originally Posted by andymays

This is for California:

Offer a 50% of takeout rebate on track only with a 25% takeout rebate at Satellite only.

There is no doubt in my mind that on track handle would go up by 4times at least.

Anyone who normally churns 5k or more a day would be foolish not to go to the live track or at least Satellite. There are quite a few people who churn 10k a day and it would certainly make sense to make the trip to the track and maybe stay the weekend.

ADW's would be opposed to this of course so that would create problems.

Tracks are free to do whatever they want. If that will create more Horseplayers, I don't think any ADWs will oppose it. And it really doesn't matter if ADWs love something or hate something.
Tracks will never do this, because if they thought it was such a good idea they would reduce takeout 24/7 already.

[andymays]

Originally Posted by Horseplayersbet.com

Tracks are free to do whatever they want. If that will create more Horseplayers, I don't think any ADWs will oppose it. And it really doesn't matter if ADWs love something or hate something.
Tracks will never do this, because if they thought it was such a good idea they would reduce takeout 24/7 already.

Don't you think they might block the signal to other venues because of the slippery slope of reduced on track takeout (50% takeout rebate)?

What about the taxability of the 50% rebate?

[Robert Fischer]

Television broadcast might even increase attendance more than perks or casinos...

[comet52]

Look at tracks that do still draw and analyze what makes them tick. Apply that to other tracks. Right now, it's shorter meets and the expectation of better racing, along with social events and a party atmosphere. Del Mar, Saratoga have this. Monmouth has definitely had good attendance by improving the field size and shortening the meet.

Most of the ideas like takeout changes are stuff that hardcore gamblers want and won't change the attendance dynamics one iota, they have little or nothing to do with what brings the masses to an entertainment venue. Horseracing has to compete with other gambling now and has to offer something that the local casino doesn't. Or it has to incorporate the local casino into itself in the form of slot machines.