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07-20-2013, 12:17 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 399
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Ragozin Sheets
Who here uses them and how effective are they? I met a fellow this weekend that uses them every day every race and swears by them. Anyone? And no, I am not affiliated with the sheets or promoting there use, just curious.
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07-20-2013, 04:17 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 403
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Rags
I don't use them or thorograph because of the cost but I would use thorograph sheets over rags bigger bang for your buck a lot more information then the rags.
Bob
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07-20-2013, 09:17 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,760
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i had a partner that read the sheets 30 years ago and we did very well using them for almost 3 years betting house q's. i don't think i could have won back then without them. but that was the last time i had anything to do with them.
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07-20-2013, 09:20 AM
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#4
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Registered user
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: FALIRIKON DELTA
Posts: 4,439
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Very overpriced and andiquated.
I would never use any kind of figure unless it is provided is some electronic format that I can back test verifying its behavior.
I view both reags and thorographs as dinosaurs of the past surviving due to proper marketing and existing customer base.
__________________
whereof one cannot speak thereof one must be silent
Ludwig Wittgenstein
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07-20-2013, 02:28 PM
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#5
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaLover
Very overpriced and andiquated.
I would never use any kind of figure unless it is provided is some electronic format that I can back test verifying its behavior.
I view both reags and thorographs as dinosaurs of the past surviving due to proper marketing and existing customer base.
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I've had small experience with these types of numbers and maybe someone here can tell me if this is true or not, but many "sheets" handicappers are interested in patterns just as much as they are interested in the actual figure, am i right about this? They're looking to bet on horses who are "coming up to" a good number rather than betting the horse who has the big number due to the idea that that horse might "regress" and "bounce".
I think it comes down to these types of figures can be overpriced if you're not really paying for the actual number to use. For example, lets say a horse has 3 lifetime starts, and runs 11, 11 and 4. Lets also say the "4" is the fastest number of anyone on the sheets in any of their lifetime races. But, the horse with the 4 is coming back in 7 days with an "11, 11, 4" pattern. So, does this mean you're going to bet against this horse because it might bounce to the moon? Or, are you betting ON that horse because it had a 4 and the 4 is the fastest number? I know, all depends on price and whatnut, but my point is that if you're going to pay 25 or 30 per day and NOT bet the horse with the 'fastest number' doesnt that defeat the purpose of buying these numbers in the first place?
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07-20-2013, 04:03 PM
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#6
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,865
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Quote:
I know, all depends on price and whatnut, but my point is that if you're going to pay 25 or 30 per day and NOT bet the horse with the 'fastest number' doesnt that defeat the purpose of buying these numbers in the first place?
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No.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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07-20-2013, 04:17 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,554
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You pay the price because you want quality figures...not because you intend to bet on all the highest rated horses.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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07-20-2013, 05:05 PM
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#8
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 25,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
You pay the price because you want quality figures...not because you intend to bet on all the highest rated horses.
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My point being this. If youre not going to bet the fastest number, why can't you save the 30 bucks a day and just bet on other factors, like video replay analysis, beyer figs, company lines, PPs and other assorted "angles"?
If betting the actual fastest horse on the sheets is not 'paramount' to your handicapping, why not just save the money and bet based on other methods?
If you see a horse you love on tape for example, and you buy the sheets and the sheets say that your pick isnt the 'fastest' horse, are you going to bet it anyway? I'm thinking you're going to bet it anyway. If you are going to bet your video trip note horse anyway, you can save the money.
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07-20-2013, 05:36 PM
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#9
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Racing Form Detective
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincoln, Ne but my heart is at Santa Anita
Posts: 16,316
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I knew somebody who swore by them or at them depending on the day. They looked like gibberish to me, but he loved them. He did say this " There is a very long learning curve with them." My opinion, for what it is worth, is that considering the cost, you could be broke before you figured the ins and outs of them. I know a lot of big bettors used them back in the day.
__________________
Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here".
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07-20-2013, 07:00 PM
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#10
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,865
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A lot of people swear by them, and some horseman use them to place their horses or claim horses. You can get them free the next day or two, to see what they are all about and try to learn them if you want to.
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Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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07-20-2013, 09:52 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sierra Madre, California
Posts: 4,419
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I don't hear much about the sheets anymore these days.
No big bettors I know personally use them.
Of course, I sure don't know all the big bettors.
Used to hear about them all the time....now you don't.
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07-20-2013, 11:19 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Behind the Pine Curtain
Posts: 10,646
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When Thorograph sold figs for Lone Star Park races (late 90s) they were awesome for turf races and 2yo races.
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07-20-2013, 11:49 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,202
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I use the "sheets" when I'm into serious action, to me its all about the projection of the numbers regarding the direction the horse is going........
__________________
I hate losing more than I love winning......
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07-21-2013, 11:19 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Sierra Madre, California
Posts: 4,419
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That's interesting El K.
I wonder why they worked so well on Turf races and do they work at other tracks on turf?
Anyone use them that has an idea?
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07-21-2013, 11:44 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,924
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One important point you are missing. The sheets do not "work". The person using them is doing all the work.
Same as the drf or any computer program. If you just bet the best speed number then they would be worthless as the prices would be way too short.
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