Major Earthquake Hits Japan !!

[Grits]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You tell me. How has the "religious right" politicized this tragic disaster or 911?

Boxcar

Box, I feel what you're doing is wrong. You are preaching God's word, however, to me the way you're going about it is sinful. More sinful than anything an innocent child living in Japan could have done to incur, what you believe, was the wrath of God Almighty.

Looking upon the death and the destruction of Japan as an opportunity to debate and promote one's own political opinions is wrong on multiple levels. But then, too, its been done for centuries. Since time's records began.

You say that you're in constant prayer for this country, for these people. I wish you could be more prayerful, and be less mindful right now of your politics, regardless whether its religious right or left liberal greenies. If you'd do so, you would be found, at least, by some, as far more more sincere. Though, I know you DO care for what these people are enduring right now, its not coming off as paramount.

Sometimes, I just don't understand how you can quote scripture, and then later, almost without fail, your politics will attach itself and it becomes like a host for your verses of scripture. Why do the two seem to go hand in hand? Does the politics give greater affirmation to your choices of scripture?

We really are different, Box. My God, of the Old Testament, is not the angry God, the wrathful, filled with vengance God, so many hold on to as threatening, as terrorizing. Instead, my God guided the people, he saw them in their sinful ways failing miserably, he punished them, yet still, he forgave, and forgave, and forgave them. He took his people back, time and again. And, then, in the New Testament, he sent his son to walk among mankind in his image to do the same. His walk, though, being more gentle than his Father's. This time, too, he had help, he had disciples who joined him in that walk, like Paul, who was the greatest sinner among them before accepting him as his savior.

For a long time, from reading your posts, I have wished that I could know your background. Particularly since, a long time ago, when I was copying your handicapping thoughts, page by page, I felt surely this man has been an avid horseplayer. I have wished that I knew if you gave your life to Christ later in life--born again in Christ--or if you were brought up from your childhood believing in Christ, but for whatever reason, moved away from the church.

Box, you are a puzzlement. Christ tells us to witness in his name and you do. Wise and thoughtful much of the time, but complicating and contradicting in others. For all that you know, for all that I know, which isn't near as great as that which you know--to me, more than anything--

GOD IS LOVE. And to me, these three words are the most important three words I have ever known.

I've taken the thread way off topic, forgive me if I've rambled or not made sense, and I apologize in advance for doing so.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by lsbets

Hcap can provide stronger evidence for his religion (global warming), than you can for yours. You two are more alike than you would ever admit.

Ouch!

[Tom]

Wrestlemania....cage match.
I'll make the calls.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by lsbets

Your constant fall back - why do you hate God? I don't hate God. I don't hate the tooth fairy either. Or Santa Clause. I also don't happen to believe in any of the three, and I don't believe in ghosts either.

Just because you don't realize your hate doesn't mean that you don't hate. All mankind hates the God of Creation. You are no different. Your hate expresses itself through your Atheism. Was it not written that "the fool says in his heart, there is no God" (Ps 14:1)?

While I admire many of the teachings attributed to a man called Jesus, I also realize there is zero historical evidence that such a man ever lived.

Did you really write this with a straight face? The entire bible is Christocentric and the NT is considered to be a very reliable historical document written by people who were contemporary with Christ and eyewitnesses to his life, testimony, ministry, miracles, death and resurrection.

I tell you a truth: If the NT writers were lying about this man they called Jesus Christ then there is no hope for any one us; for Evil would know no bounds.

Moreover, there is even extra-biblical evidence for the existence of Jesus:

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNs...an_Sources.htm

But you're right - the love of your God is incomprehensible. It is incomprehensible how an all powerful being with such amazing love can continually bring so much misery upon the world. That isn't love, not by any stretch of the imagination.

But what is even more incomprehensible is you how find conflict between a person's love and his justice. God's holiness demands Justice. And his Goodness demands Love.

When a judge goes to pronounce the ultimate sentence upon a guilty criminal, does the judge's sentence make him a bad person? Do you think any reasonably normal, well adjusted jurist would take some kind of wicked pleasure in his pronouncement? There is no inherent contradiction between Love and Justice. Even the scripture says that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live (Ezek 18:33).

But more than this even: Not only isn't there any genuine conflict between God's Love and Justice, but for those with eyes to see, the evidence for the harmonious coexistence between God's Love and Justice can be seen at the Cross of Jesus Christ -- the very person whose existence you deny! In fact, if God is truly Good and truly Holy, then the two must coexist because Goodness and Holiness are Perfections of God. If either perfection was not to be found in God's character, God would be like you and me and everyone else in the universe -- imperfect!

Consider this for a moment, please:

John 3:16-19
16 "For God so loved the world, that He GAVE His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
NASB

God doesn't merely tell us that he loves fallen mankind, but proved it -- proved it -- by giving this lost, fallen, dying world the greatest gift he could -- his only Righteous Son. And the Father sent his Son into this world to satisfy the demands of his holy Justice. Jesus paid the wages of sin, which is death (Rom 3:23). He took upon himself at the cross in his body the sins of his people and paid the ultimate penalty for those sins. He bore his Father's curse! He became his people's substitute sin-bearer. It pleased the Father to "bruise" his son for the sake of the elect. How can you not see this incomprehensible unconditional love, and how can it not melt your heart?

The rest of the passage says that Jesus didn't come into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. Love and Justice meet at the foot of the Cross of the very person you deny ever existed!

But there's more to this passage, for it goes on to talk about Justice:

John 3:19-21
19 "And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
NASB

I would submit to you three things: First, I think you're smart enough to know there's no inherent conflict between Love and Justice, which leads me to the second point: And this is why at the end of the day, your main straw man excuse is that there's no evidence that Christ ever existed. But the bible itself won't allow that anemic excuse either; for the entire bible from cover to cover is about this supposedly "non-existent" person! The OT predicted Him and the NT revealed Him fulfilled those predictions. And so, I can only conclude that the real reason you deny God and his Son is because of the bolded portion of the above text.

But please, don't misunderstand: I put my pants on the same way you do. I descend from Adam, as you do. And like you, I was once a devout atheist -- until God called me into his Kingdom and dragged me "kicking and screaming", as it were (for you have no idea how man straw men I tossed at believers until it pleased the Holy Spirit to lift the veil from my eyes). But there can be no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood (Heb 9:22) and there's no other name under heaven by which men can be saved -- and that name is of the very God-Man you deny (Act 4:12).

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Grits

Box, I feel what you're doing is wrong. You are preaching God's word, however, to me the way you're going about it is sinful. More sinful than anything an innocent child living in Japan could have done to incur, what you believe, was the wrath of God Almighty.

Looking upon the death and the destruction of Japan as an opportunity to debate and promote one's own political opinions is wrong on multiple levels. But then, too, its been done for centuries. Since time's records began.

You say that you're in constant prayer for this country, for these people. I wish you could be more prayerful, and be less mindful right now of your politics, regardless whether its religious right or left liberal greenies. If you'd do so, you would be found, at least, by some, as far more more sincere. Though, I know you DO care for what these people are enduring right now, its not coming off as paramount.

Sometimes, I just don't understand how you can quote scripture, and then later, almost without fail, your politics will attach itself and it becomes like a host for your verses of scripture. Why do the two seem to go hand in hand? Does the politics give greater affirmation to your choices of scripture?

We really are different, Box. My God, of the Old Testament, is not the angry God, the wrathful, filled with vengance God, so many hold on to as threatening, as terrorizing. Instead, my God guided the people, he saw them in their sinful ways failing miserably, he punished them, yet still, he forgave, and forgave, and forgave them. He took his people back, time and again. And, then, in the New Testament, he sent his son to walk among mankind in his image to do the same. His walk, though, being more gentle than his Father's. This time, too, he had help, he had disciples who joined him in that walk, like Paul, who was the greatest sinner among them before accepting him as his savior.

For a long time, from reading your posts, I have wished that I could know your background. Particularly since, a long time ago, when I was copying your handicapping thoughts, page by page, I felt surely this man has been an avid horseplayer. I have wished that I knew if you gave your life to Christ later in life--born again in Christ--or if you were brought up from your childhood believing in Christ, but for whatever reason, moved away from the church.

Box, you are a puzzlement. Christ tells us to witness in his name and you do. Wise and thoughtful much of the time, but complicating and contradicting in others. For all that you know, for all that I know, which isn't near as great as that which you know--to me, more than anything--

GOD IS LOVE. And to me, these three words are the most important three words I have ever known.

I've taken the thread way off topic, forgive me if I've rambled or not made sense, and I apologize in advance for doing so.

I wish I had time to respond more fully but suffice it to highlight for now a few things: First, I find you confusing. I didn't initiate this discussion of God's involvement with this disaster in this thread. TJ Dave did. I responded. Then LS responded, etc.

Secondly, I brought up the issue of "greenies" to add to PA's thoughts about all the confusing news coming out of Japan right now. All I said was that many people will exploit tragedies like this for political purposes, and the Left is famous for this, and that it wouldn't surprise if we get even more mixed messages by the media. I'm not the one politicizing this tragedy. My only "political" comment was that we shouldn't be surprised if the tragedy winds up being exploited for political purposes.

Thirdly, Politics, social policy, etc. find their ground ultimately in Morality. I am a conservative because of my Christian beliefs. The bible supports conservative principles much more strongly than liberal ones. So, when I come down on a side of a political or social issue, I like to show people why -- what the moral grounds are for my opinion.

As far as how you personally see God in the bible -- well, I can't comment on that. I see God as he is presented -- A God of Love and a God of Justice, as I just got done telling LS. (In fact, to be perfectly honest with you, I see God in ALL his perfections and attributes -- not just ones I personally favor.) God's love and Justice are not incompatible. They are not inconsistent. They are not in conflict.

Try to remember: That God is not like us. We really must not think of him in human terms. His ways are infinitely higher than ours. His thoughts are infinitely greater. God can do things that we cannot -- that are beyond our power. He can, just as one example, bring Good out of Evil. We cannot do that. I would remind you of Joseph in the OT and what he concluded about all the evil his brothers brought upon him. Or Job for that matter at the end of his testing. Or even Jesus Christ for that matter! In short, we cannot comprehend God. His ways are unsearchable. Right now, we can only see (by faith) dimly -- I repeat: dimly (1Cor 13:12).

Tragedies such as this in Japan have a humbling effect upon me because I know that it could have been me and my own loved ones suffering through those unimaginable horrors. I don't look at myself as being any better than the Japanese people. There only difference between me and them is God's grace! And never, never, never think for a moment that God doesn't bring disaster and calamity upon his own people. If you believe he doesn't, you really need to read the Book of Hebrews, Revelations, Paul's testimony about his sufferings, and how the church would suffer throughout this age for the sake of Christ. Neither are Christians above or better than their Master. In fact, Israel was an apostate, covenant-breaking nation, and the the OT which you read is replete with God's judgments upon the nation -- and yes, as well as his forgiveness. But even so...at the end day, Israel broke God's covenant.

To me, it is extremely sobering to watch and read about this devastation in Japan. But even so...my comfort is in God's goodness, his perfect justice and his perfect love -- and the fact of his immutability -- that he will never, never change. He is the same Now, as he was Yesterday, and as he will be Tomorrow.

Boxcar

[highnote]

Japan’s Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA) said March 12 that the explosion at the Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 nuclear plant could only have been caused by a meltdown of the reactor core, Japanese daily Nikkei reported. This statement seemed somewhat at odds with Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano’s comments earlier March 12, in which he said “the walls of the building containing the reactor were destroyed, meaning that the metal container encasing the reactor did not explode.”



Read more: Japanese Government Confirms Meltdown | STRATFOR.com

[karlskorner]

I don't know which GOD or for what reasons, but payback is a bitch and what goes around comes around for the BATAAN DEATH MARCH where over 20,000 Americans were murdered by the Japs over a period of 7 days and a distance of 61 miles, I have very little feelings about their problems.

[DJofSD]

Originally Posted by karlskorner

I don't know which GOD or for what reasons, but payback is a bitch and what goes around comes around for the BATAAN DEATH MARCH where over 20,000 Americans were murdered by the Japs over a period of 7 days and a distance of 61 miles, I have very little feelings about their problems.

karl, get a grip.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by karlskorner

I don't know which GOD or for what reasons, but payback is a bitch and what goes around comes around for the BATAAN DEATH MARCH where over 20,000 Americans were murdered by the Japs over a period of 7 days and a distance of 61 miles, I have very little feelings about their problems.

Karl, in the words of ABC news anchor, Diane Sawyer, spoken just a couple of minutes ago:

"We hope you have a good night, tonight, at home in the United States."

[joanied]

Originally Posted by karlskorner

I don't know which GOD or for what reasons, but payback is a bitch and what goes around comes around for the BATAAN DEATH MARCH where over 20,000 Americans were murdered by the Japs over a period of 7 days and a distance of 61 miles, I have very little feelings about their problems.

I came back here to post about finding out all the horse farms in Japan are OK, including the horses...I was worried about them, especially the likes of Charismatic, Silver Charm and Azeri...

the Battan Death March caught my eye...I won't discuss religion or politics, but the post above shows that you are still holding a grudge against the Japanese people as a whole...isn't this the same thing as the Black people of America still hateing the White people because of slavery?

Decades have gone by and I doubt there are many people left in Japan that were alive during WWII.
I am a patriot, I support all of our troops, my ex husband was a Viet Nam vet, my dad spent 5 years over seas during WWII, in combat, and was a very troubled man when he came back...I do understand...the Japanese were absolutley brutal to our guys during WWII...but again, it was a very, very long time ago, and I find it hard to beleive that anyone could applaud the suffering the Japanese folks are going through right now because of the cruelty that happened several decades ago.

I hope you can find some forgiveness in your heart, karl.

[cj's dad]

From Joanies post >the Battan Death March caught my eye...I won't discuss religion or politics, but the post above shows that you are still holding a grudge against the Japanese people as a whole...isn't this the same thing as the Black people of America still hateing the White people because of slavery? < Snip

No JD, it is not- IMO there are still people alive who had grandparents or great grandpaRents who are still alive who suffered the Bataan Death March.

There is not a single soul in America who has a relative who is alive who was a slave.

GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON.

[karlskorner]

During the first 3 weeks of May 1945 I was stationed on the Isle of Negra prior to moving to Okinawa the 1st week of June 1945. I became friendly with the barkeep of the local canteen, who claimed he was a spectator to the march in April 1942. He was beaten for trying to help and forced to help bury the dead, his stories are not worthwhile repeating here to those who are so willing to forgive and forget. We have sired a group of thumbsuckers.

[bigmack]

Originally Posted by karlskorner

I don't know which GOD or for what reasons, but payback is a bitch and what goes around comes around for the BATAAN DEATH MARCH

War is Hell and this has nothing to do with Karma.

“To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.”
Lewis B. Smedes

[joanied]

Originally Posted by cj's dad

From Joanies post >the Battan Death March caught my eye...I won't discuss religion or politics, but the post above shows that you are still holding a grudge against the Japanese people as a whole...isn't this the same thing as the Black people of America still hateing the White people because of slavery? < Snip

No JD, it is not- IMO there are still people alive who had grandparents or great grandpaRents who are still alive who suffered the Bataan Death March.

There is not a single soul in America who has a relative who is alive who was a slave.

GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON.

Get over what? If you think you can't compare the slaves to the Death March, as far as it happening so long ago, fine...I'll give you that, because it did happen further back than WWII
and maybe there are great grandparents, grandparents still alive that were there during the Death March...but does that mean we should hate their children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren because of what happened before they were born?
You make it sound as if I don't feel for anyone that suffered by the hands of the Japs back then...if you need to know, I hate the men that put our guys and all the innocents through the hell that they did...the Japanese were incredibly cruel, they were worse than animals, they were brutal...my dad was there, he suffered and he was never the same man after that f'n war...I know what happened...and I hate the Japanese men that were apart of that...
but, come on, to enjoy the suffering that so many Japanese folks are going through right now, to say they deserve this, well, IMO, it just ain't right.

[karlskorner]

Not to repeat myself, but read some of the comments on this forum, read the newspapers, listen to some of the TV commentators, this country has sired a huge amount of THUMBSUCKERS.