Fractional Times and Calls

[Paging]

Hello,

I have a little "debate" going with a friend ref fractional times and the corresponding calls.

6 furlong race
fractions: 22.4 47.2 1:00.2 1:13.1
calls: ST-5, 1C-7th by 2.75, 2C-5th by 4, Str-4th by .75, Fin 2 by 2.25

What calls ST, 1C, 2C, Str, Fin correspond to what fractions?

1 mile race
fractions: 24.0 48.3 1:14 1:40.2
calls: ST-11th by 7.5, 1C-11th by 12, 2C-10th by 7.5, Str-9th by 12, Fin 9th by 14.25

What calls ST, 1C, 2C, Str, Fin correspond to what fractions?


Thanks,

[46zilzal]

http://www.drf.com/help/help_drf_pp.html

[Overlay]

To elaborate, the Start call does not relate to any fraction, nor are there lengths ahead or behind associated with it. (There is only a running postion given.) As noted in the link 46zilzal supplied, it represents the relative position of the horses immediately after leaving the starting gate.

The first call/fraction in both of the examples you supplied corresponds to the horses' positions and the time of the leader after the horses have gone 1/4-mile (2 furlongs).

The second fraction/call corresponds to running positions and the leader's time at 1/2-mile (4 furlongs).

Both the third fraction and the stretch call in the six-furlong race correspond to five furlongs (that is, one furlong, or one-eighth of a mile, from the finish).

The third fraction in the one-mile race is at six furlongs. The stretch call in the one-mile race is at seven furlongs (again, one furlong from the finish).

The finish (the last point of call) corresponds to the last time figure given, which is the time in which the winner ran the race.

Check this link also:

http://www.drf.com/flash/drf_pp_tutorial.html

[DJofSD]

BRIS table for Points of Call & Fractional Times.

[Paging]

I appreciate your replies and it does seem logical. However, I then have a couple of specific questions.

First for those familiar with Pizzolla. In his book “Handicapping Magic” when discussing the calculation of the Fulcrum it appears he uses either the 2nd or 3rd fraction combined with the 2nd call lengths beaten.



Page 65 with the horse “Fourth And Six”

He states the fulcrum is 46



The horse has the following fractions and calls in a 7 furlong race

22.2 44.4 1:10 1:23

3 by 2, 7 by 5 ¾, 6 by 4, 3 by 2 ¼



44.4 + 5 ¾ (using 5 lengths = 1 second and rounding ¾ up) = 46



Page 76 with the horse “Cherokee Benji”

He states the fulcrum is 114 3/5



The horse has the following fractions and calls in a 1 1/16 race.

23.4 47.3 1:13.1 1:48.1

3 by 9 ½, 3 by 6 ½, 3 by ½, 1 by 3



1:13.1 + ½ = 1:13.2

Therefore he must be using the 3rd fraction with the 2nd call

1:13.1 + 6 ½ = 1:14.3





Secondly, there has been some discussion about the web site www.racehorserunner.com over on the software forum.



This web site has the following for a couple of horses.



Oaklawn Park 3/10

1st Race #7 Audrey Marie – the horse has only one start – that was over 6 furlongs – same as today’s distance



The web site has ¼ 24.2 and ½ 48.4



The Bris PPs show the following information ref fractions and calls.

22.2 46.4 59.3 1:12.3

St: 7, 1C:7 by 9 2C:7 by 8 Str:9 by 16 Fin: 9 by 21



22.2 + 9 = 24 1/5 moved to 10ths = 24.2

46.4 + 8 = 48 2/5 moved to 10ths = 48.4



3rd Race #9 Slew City Magic – the horse has only one start – that was over 1 mile – same as today’s distance.



The web site has ¼ 24.7 and ½ 52.1



Fractions and calls

23.3 47.4 1:14.1 1:39.3

St: 11 by 6 ¾, 1C: 12 by 21 2C: 12 by 39 Str:--- Fin: ---- Eased



23.3 + 21 = 27 4/5 moved to 10ths 27.8

Therefore the web site must be using the 1st fraction with the Beaten Lengths at the start.

23.3 + 6 ¾ = 24 4/5 moved to 10ths 24.8



This is what has lead to some of the debate I’m having regarding which calls correspond to what fractions. Any comments?



Thanks,

[Paging]

Originally Posted by Overlay

To elaborate, the Start call does not relate to any fraction, nor are there lengths ahead or behind associated with it. (There is only a running postion given.) As noted in the link 46zilzal supplied, it represents the relative position of the horses immediately after leaving the starting gate.

This appears to be a common misconception (at least with the Bris pps).

The start does give lengths ahead or behind and it does relate to the 1/4 fractional times on races between 1 mile to 1 1/16 miles.

It is the Stretch Call that does not relate to a fractional time in these races.

[RonTiller]

If your question is about what the DRF specifically prints, your question has probably been answered so just ignore the rest of this. However, there is a distinction between the data collected and the data the DRF or any other reseller of handicapping data chooses to publish. Faliure to make this distinction has caused us not a few problems.

Equibase collects the positions as well as the lengths ahead/behind information for the 1/4 all the way up to 13.5 furlongs, or 1 mile 11/16th. This IS how the Call 1 data is defined in the data collection world Between 14 and 22 furlongs, Call 1 in the collected data IS the 1/2. Other Calls follow suit similarly, regardless of wahts the DRF or anybody chooses to print.

What a newspaper or handicapping service chooses to print is their own business. By substituting the break call with the 1/4 call position at a certain distance in the printing of their PPs, many people assume that that represents how the data is collected, or reflects a limitation of the data. Not so. The DRF formatting and labelling of the points of call has become such a defacto standard for many consumers that it is easy to forget they represent PRINTED points of call, not the COLLECTED points of call or the TOTALITY of the points of call data. This has caused a few misunderstanding between us referring to Call 1 (as the raw data is collected and stored) and customers referring to Call 1 (as defined by how the DRF prints the data). But anybody who has all the collected data (which includes software using our files) can print PPs however they want, including printing the 1/4 point of call and beaten lengths up to 13.5 furlongs. So the answer to "What does Point of Call 1 represent?" is entirely dependent on where the printed PP is coming from.

Ron Tiller
HDW

[Overlay]

Paging:

Thanks for refreshing my recollection on the "Start" call for route races. I'd forgotten the distinction based on race distance, and the inclusion of lengths behind for that call in routes, since I usually look more closely at the first-quarter call/time in sprints and the half-mile call/time in routes. (I'm at the point where, if I don't use it, I lose it (at least memory-wise)!)

[Paging]

Ron - Very interesting.


Then may I ask what options there are to obtain data files other than Bris, Tsn or DRF?

Thanks,

[hurrikane]

Uhhh...gee Ron...I wonder who else?

[cj]

Originally Posted by Paging

Then may I ask what options there are to obtain data files other than Bris, Tsn or DRF?

Sure, Trackmaster, Handicapper's Data Warehouse, Equibase, and The Sports Wire at http://www.spw.com/ if you are outside the US.

That is about all I can think of at the moment.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by hurrikane

Uhhh...gee Ron...I wonder who else?

[Paging]

Originally Posted by hurrikane

Uhhh...gee Ron...I wonder who else?

On Hdw's site I see mention of 1) Handicapping Reports and 2) Race Files for Software.

Could someone please provide a link to the data file cost and structure that I could use to import into my own db.

Thanks,

[cj]

http://www.horsedata.com/price.html

File structure might depend on which version you purchase?

[Paging]

Originally Posted by cj

http://www.horsedata.com/price.html

File structure might depend on which version you purchase?

Thanks CJ