My issue with the Pacific Classic/Baffert - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Track Phantom · 08-20-2017, 02:01 PM

Two observations about the $1M Pacific Classic, both involving Baffert, and both not good.

1. Did you see his reaction (and the reaction of his wife and son) after he ran ONE-TWO in the G1 Pacific Classic? Totally dejected, sad and his son, in anguish, swore (stay classy). I understand he wanted Arrogate to get back to form but WTF? You just ran one-two in the race. Only in America can a trainer accomplish this feat in a G1 and be upset about it. This bothered me.

2. Arrogate re-rally. Years ago, when Jamie Ness and Justin Evans were winning every other race at Canterbury, you could absolutely tell when their horses were drugged. They would be running in place on the far turn despite the rider "all-in". You felt their horse was beaten and then all of a sudden, the horse would kick in and win. It was actually very obvious to see if you looked for it. It is why these supertrainers like to send their runner to the lead because the drug works to reduce the fatigue factor. Thus you want the horse to be ahead when others start to fatigue in a normal way.

I'm not saying Arrogate was aided in this way but he looked absolutely stalled on the turn. He was being worked and then re-rallied. It looked illegitimate to me.

GMB@BP · 08-20-2017, 02:10 PM

I love message boards..they are special.

cj · 08-20-2017, 02:12 PM

1. I agree totally. I thought it was completely bush league. It shows maybe why Kaleem Shah packed up and left Baffert.

2. I don't see that here personally. I know the kind of horse you are talking about (watch any Jorge N winner for an example) and I didn't see that with Arrogate.

Dahoss9698 · 08-20-2017, 02:13 PM

I'm with you on #1 but not so much #2.

Track Phantom · 08-20-2017, 02:26 PM

I understand point #2 is not worth mentioning since it cannot be proven. It just looked odd to me. I'll go back and rewatch the race to see if my opinion is different from watching it live.

Track Phantom · 08-20-2017, 02:31 PM

Yea. I guess I take back point #2 somewhat. Watching the replay wasn't as dramatic as I felt it was watching it live. Maybe I just expected him to move when asked the first time, and he didn't.

dilanesp · 08-20-2017, 02:54 PM

On number 2, I thought it is possible the people who say he doesn't like the track have a point. He was asked to run several tims and didn't respond. He is a competitor, so he finally tried to gut it out in the stretch, but this race totally looked like what a good horse who dislikes a surface might do.

Track Phantom · 08-20-2017, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp

On number 2, I thought it is possible the people who say he doesn't like the track have a point. He was asked to run several tims and didn't respond. He is a competitor, so he finally tried to gut it out in the stretch, but this race totally looked like what a good horse who dislikes a surface might do.

Fair point.

Andy Asaro · 08-20-2017, 03:05 PM

You guys know that there's Bob and Jill when they know camera's are on and Bob and Jill when nobody is looking.

Grits · 08-20-2017, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj

1. I agree totally. I thought it was completely bush league. It shows maybe why Kaleem Shah packed up and left Baffert.

Was pleased to see Simon Callaghan and Mr.Shah win last weekend with Run Away in the Best Pal. That one may have stung Bob a bit.

After the race yesterday, I thought his comments and his reaction, petulant, and to me, this translates to...nervous. Not to mention, perplexed.

AndyC · 08-20-2017, 03:29 PM

As to #1, I completely understand his reaction. Arrogate was/is considered to be the best horse in the world and with a couple of more significant wins might have been in the conversation as one of the best of all time. Say what you want but it must be incredibly deflating to have such a horse lose again. It certainly had to have been far more emotionally devastating than the win for Collected was uplifting.

dilanesp · 08-20-2017, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyC

As to #1, I completely understand his reaction. Arrogate was/is considered to be the best horse in the world and with a couple of more significant wins might have been in the conversation as one of the best of all time. Say what you want but it must be incredibly deflating to have such a horse lose again. It certainly had to have been far more emotionally devastating than the win for Collected was uplifting.

+1

Look up Charles Howard's reaction when he won the Santa Anita Handicap with Kayak II. He wasn't as thrilled as you might expect.

cj · 08-20-2017, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp

+1

Look up Charles Howard's reaction when he won the Santa Anita Handicap with Kayak II. He wasn't as thrilled as you might expect.

Maybe not as thrilled as if Seabiscuit won, but Bob looked like he lost his best friend after winning the race.

Where do we look up the reaction, by the way?

dilanesp · 08-20-2017, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj

Maybe not as thrilled as if Seabiscuit won, but Bob looked like he lost his best friend after winning the race.

Where do we look up the reaction, by the way?

If you can find a newspaper article from the time (or maybe the University of Kentucky's Racing Form archive). I know that the LA Times did a recapitulation of it (which also may be available online) in the 80's or 90's in which they had the quotes.

Basically Howard answered almost every question by saying it was bittersweet because he wanted it to be / it should have been Seabiscuit. At that time, it wasn't at all clear that Seabiscuit would ever get another chance to win it.

EDIT: And here's an even better source! It's in Laura Hillenbrand's book!

https://books.google.com/books?id=oE...howard&f=false

"Oh gosh it was grand. Kayak II is a good horse. But gee, it wasn't Seabiscuit. I am extremely proud of the horse, but I can't help saying I would be happier had Seabiscuit been the winner."

cj · 08-20-2017, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilanesp

If you can find a newspaper article from the time (or maybe the University of Kentucky's Racing Form archive). I know that the LA Times did a recapitulation of it (which also may be available online) in the 80's or 90's in which they had the quotes.

Basically Howard answered almost every question by saying it was bittersweet because he wanted it to be / it should have been Seabiscuit. At that time, it wasn't at all clear that Seabiscuit would ever get another chance to win it.

EDIT: And here's an even better source! It's in Laura Hillenbrand's book!

https://books.google.com/books?id=oE...howard&f=false

"Oh gosh it was grand. Kayak II is a good horse. But gee, it wasn't Seabiscuit. I am extremely proud of the horse, but I can't help saying I would be happier had Seabiscuit been the winner."

OK, but that is a far cry from Bob yesterday IMO. He looked gutted, almost like Arrogate had been pulled up on the backstretch.