Am I wrong?

[jasperson]

I had a discussion with the manager of our simulcast facility a Lonestar park. This was about what influence the slots would have on horseracing attendance at the track? The slot machines would be in separate building away from the grandstand and simulcast facility. My opinion was it would have little effect on attendance at horse racing sites. His opinion was attendance would explode. Who is closer to being right?

[Fingal]

There are people who play slots-

There are people who bet horses-

( Notice I said play vs. bet )

Rarely they ever meet.

[Tom Barrister]

You and the manager might be looking at things from different perspectives.

Overall attendance would increase if slots are counted.

It would have little effect on the racing-based attendance.

[jasperson]

Originally Posted by Tom Barrister

You and the manager might be looking at things from different perspectives.

Overall attendance would increase if slots are counted.

It would have little effect on the racing-based attendance.

That is what I was trying to get across to him. Slots would be great for the horsemen, trainers, jockeys owners and breeder, but there is nothing for to attract additional fans. He tried to say that I was resistant to change and I pointed out that I have been going to the races 60 plus years and nothing has changed. I still pay to Park,pay to get in pay for a drf and pay for over priced food and drinks. Nothing has been done to attract new fans.

[proximity]

Originally Posted by jasperson

That is what I was trying to get across to him. Slots would be great for the horsemen, trainers, jockeys owners and breeder, but there is nothing for to attract additional fans. He tried to say that I was resistant to change and I pointed out that I have been going to the races 60 plus years and nothing has changed. I still pay to Park,pay to get in pay for a drf and pay for over priced food and drinks. Nothing has been done to attract new fans.

well i have never paid to park at or get into a racino!! and if you bet enough money you won't be paying for track programs and if you bet somewhat more than that you won't be paying for a drf and most of your food and drinks should be free .... of course these "perks" aside, the "players points" and tenths of a percent (!!) "rebates" are where most racinos fall short. like you said: great for everyone involved in the business except for the diehard horseplayers who had supported these once dying tracks through the years.

[jasperson]

At my track if I $1500 I can get a free cup of coffee. For $2000 a free parking pass and for $4500 a free racing form. What a deal.

[proximity]

Originally Posted by jasperson

and for $4500 a free racing form.

now that is really pathetic!!

there was a brief period a few years back where pen was giving 5% for live racing, and that could get players excited about things, but three to six tenths of a percent just doesn't do it.

[Norm]

Consider the intellectual level of those who play slots; then consider the intellectual level of those who handicap and then bet on horses. The former requires no thought process whatsoever; the latter requires an actual skill. Some say the twain shall never meet. I disagree. Here's how you do it (and remember you heard it here first !) Arrange with the purveyors of "slot" machines to design a machine that will accept your dollar and then spew out a randomly selected ticket on a horse in the next race. No thought process required. The ticket holder then goes out to see how his horse does. The first guy who hits on a longshot is celebrated with much fuss by track management. Then everyone (the slot players) rushes in to the machines before the next race to "try their luck". Is it handicapping ? ... hell, no, but it will increase the handle. It's a win-win-win situation. Think about it, (1) people bet horses without the troublesome thought process, (2) management gets a boost in the handle, (3) real horseplayers get better odds because of the random distribution of slot-players money in the pools. Cool, huh ?

[slewis]

Originally Posted by jasperson

I had a discussion with the manager of our simulcast facility a Lonestar park. This was about what influence the slots would have on horseracing attendance at the track? The slot machines would be in separate building away from the grandstand and simulcast facility. My opinion was it would have little effect on attendance at horse racing sites. His opinion was attendance would explode. Who is closer to being right?

You are easily correct.. but it just goes to show the short-sightedness of everyone in this industry.
There's a right way to do slots and a wrong way, and most tracks do the wrong.
The right way is that the horsemen get NO money from slot revenue.
What you do for the horsemen is this: (and this is what I would do if I ran gambling in NY state)
You have some slots INSIDE the horse racing and simulcast facility.....The track gets a small piece of that, and I mean small.
AND.. you have large TV's with racing above ALL the slot's or VLT units in a separate facility.
Adjacent to each slot you put a small unit that allows SLOT PLAYERS to bet an upcoming HORSE race. THAT INCREASED HANDLE would be the ONLY REVENUE THE TRACK IS ENTITLED TO.
If I'm the state of NY, I could care less how we get our cut as long as we get it, and if a slot player likes slots more then horses, tough shit on the thoroughbred industry.
This nonsense by horsemen and racetracks that they're "entitled" is a joke.
If I own a restaurant in a shoping plaza and someone opens an Ice cream shop next to my place, and I lose 15% of my desert business to that, do I have the right to go over to the owner of the Ice cream place and demand a piece of his business that he's taking?
Give me a break.
With the fiscal situation facing the state of NY, Patterson and other politicians are FOOLS. They should march right back into court and scratch the NYRA deal (and they could do it if they had any balls) keep the whole slot pie to fill drastically soaring budget gaps, not to allow NYRA to raise purses in 2009 (like they've already announced).
The people who run our Gov't are FOOLS, but wait, I know they're really not, they're probably on the take from the wealthy people on the NYRA board!!!
Whatever the spin, the horseplayer gets zip.
Oh, and by the way, the more slots in this industry, the WORSE US THE HORSEPLAYERS WILL BE TREATED BY RACETRACK MANAGEMENT !!!
So get used to it.....

[DarrenClarke]

Originally Posted by Norm

Consider the intellectual level of those who play slots; then consider the intellectual level of those who handicap and then bet on horses. The former requires no thought process whatsoever; the latter requires an actual skill. Some say the twain shall never meet. I disagree. Here's how you do it (and remember you heard it here first !) Arrange with the purveyors of "slot" machines to design a machine that will accept your dollar and then spew out a randomly selected ticket on a horse in the next race. No thought process required. The ticket holder then goes out to see how his horse does. The first guy who hits on a longshot is celebrated with much fuss by track management. Then everyone (the slot players) rushes in to the machines before the next race to "try their luck". Is it handicapping ? ... hell, no, but it will increase the handle. It's a win-win-win situation. Think about it, (1) people bet horses without the troublesome thought process, (2) management gets a boost in the handle, (3) real horseplayers get better odds because of the random distribution of slot-players money in the pools. Cool, huh ?

Norm, you have a good idea except for 2 things. 1) Most slot players are too addicted to get up and go watch the race and 2) they would be afraid of "losing" their machine to another patron. Slot players become addicted to that rush of excitement every 10 seconds, they are NOT candidates for something as intellectual as handicapping a horse race and then waiting 25-30 minutes to find out the result.

[ralph_the_cat]

well although I have been to lots of racetracks that have added slots, I cant say I am there often enough to note the change at any race track except one...

but I will tell you, at MNR before slots there used to be a charge to park and watch the races, there isnt anymore... and I have friends and family members that wouldnt go to the track anymore, and since slots they do, the guys can now get their wives to come play the slots while they're playing the ponies... I dont know how many times Im talking to even a stranger at the track and they say... "my wife is over at the casino, shes been play'n slots for 3 hours" I cant believe shes not broke yet, etc etc...

[DanG]

Originally Posted by slewis

Whatever the spin, the horseplayer gets zip.
Oh, and by the way, the more slots in this industry, the WORSE US THE HORSEPLAYERS WILL BE TREATED BY RACETRACK MANAGEMENT !!!
So get used to it.....

Fact.

Good / realistic post Slew.

[supercap]

Slots are an eventual death sentence to horseracing, sooner or later the racetracks will see how much money they can make if they turn the whole operation into a hotel based casino. Racing is just a means to the end for this , a neccesary evil. Do you think racetrack officials like giving the casino profits to the horseman? The racing only allows the casino to operate and when that hurdle is cleared the future of racing will be dead.

[mannyberrios]

Originally Posted by Norm

Consider the intellectual level of those who play slots; then consider the intellectual level of those who handicap and then bet on horses. The former requires no thought process whatsoever; the latter requires an actual skill. Some say the twain shall never meet. I disagree. Here's how you do it (and remember you heard it here first !) Arrange with the purveyors of "slot" machines to design a machine that will accept your dollar and then spew out a randomly selected ticket on a horse in the next race. No thought process required. The ticket holder then goes out to see how his horse does. The first guy who hits on a longshot is celebrated with much fuss by track management. Then everyone (the slot players) rushes in to the machines before the next race to "try their luck". Is it handicapping ? ... hell, no, but it will increase the handle. It's a win-win-win situation. Think about it, (1) people bet horses without the troublesome thought process, (2) management gets a boost in the handle, (3) real horseplayers get better odds because of the random distribution of slot-players money in the pools. Cool, huh ?

Sounds good to me

[cj's dad]

Originally Posted by Norm

Consider the intellectual level of those who play slots; then consider the intellectual level of those who handicap and then bet on horses. The former requires no thought process whatsoever; the latter requires an actual skill. Some say the twain shall never meet. I disagree. Here's how you do it (and remember you heard it here first !) Arrange with the purveyors of "slot" machines to design a machine that will accept your dollar and then spew out a randomly selected ticket on a horse in the next race. No thought process required. The ticket holder then goes out to see how his horse does. The first guy who hits on a longshot is celebrated with much fuss by track management. Then everyone (the slot players) rushes in to the machines before the next race to "try their luck". Is it handicapping ? ... hell, no, but it will increase the handle. It's a win-win-win situation. Think about it, (1) people bet horses without the troublesome thought process, (2) management gets a boost in the handle, (3) real horseplayers get better odds because of the random distribution of slot-players money in the pools. Cool, huh ?

Although not exactly the same, a similar approach was tries at Laurel Park
2-3 years ago and failed miserably. The room which housed the random machines is now closed to the public.