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12-15-2017, 02:39 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
I'm beginning to think you are missing the issue here or don't understand what data even is. No one says you shouldn't pay more if you consume more. NO ONE. The problem is you will be charged differently not for the amount of data you use or the speed in which you get it but by the sites you are accessing.
This is actually a bipartisan issue with the majority of Republicans also favoring net neutrality.
"Democrats — urged on by consumer advocates, digital rights groups and online giants such as Amazon, Google and Facebook — said the tougher federal oversight is needed because the internet’s increasingly vital role in business and daily life is vulnerable to exploitation by telecom companies."
"But there is bipartisan support for net neutrality, and some lawmakers want to pass net neutrality legislation that would enshrine some of the principles in law."
"“I call on Democrats and Republicans who want to preserve a free and open internet to work together on permanent consumer protections,” said Senate Commerce Committee Chairman John Thune (R-S.D.) after the FCC vote."
LA Times
75% of Republicans don't support the reversal. 80% of the electorate is against it.
Maryland Poll on Net Neutrality
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Now...I know I'm on the right side of the issue. Going with the crowd is is very rarely wise. I certainly know it never works betting the ponies over the long haul.
And I'm not surprised by the level of support NN has with Republicans since that number sounds about right for the ratio of Rinos to conservatives. Most Republicans make their home in the Swamp.
By the way...how have we survived on the internet all these years before NN was invented?
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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12-15-2017, 04:00 PM
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#47
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
So your objection is that you don't want to pay Netflix's subscription price? I gladly pay Netflix's price.
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Oh my, for such a self-proclaimed "smart guy," you sure are having a problem with the easy stuff.
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12-15-2017, 04:38 PM
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Oh my, for such a self-proclaimed "smart guy," you sure are having a problem with the easy stuff.
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I never claimed to be smart only that people such as yourself (most especially) make me look so smart.
By the way it was ET who brought Netflix (an apple) and your website (an orange) into this discussion. So...my question to him is legit. He obviously is willing to "patronize" your free site, but not so much with Netflix who is in the business of selling entertainment. Got it now? It really is easy.
But this gets even better: When NN was in force, Netflix still wasn't free to anyone, and I seriously doubt that is going to change now, after the government reverted back to the way things were in the good ol' days.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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12-15-2017, 04:38 PM
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#49
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: near Philadelphia
Posts: 4,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
This is absolute nonsense. The sources you are citing are the greatest platforms of free speech ever created. I can post something there and reach MILLIONS if I so choose.
If anything this will strengthen their hand as they are already established platforms.
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What nonsense? Platforms for free speech? You mean Twitter and Facebook? If you think that Twitter and Facebook espouse free speech then you are the one uttering nonsense, elysian.
Tell that to the conservatives that were banned by Twitter or the anti-Hillary groups on Facebook who set up pages simply to counter their perceived pro-Hillary bias in the main stream media. Oh yes, liberal groups calling for Black Lives Matter to riot were never banned or the constant calling for Trump to be murdered seemed to be okay too... but any anti-Obama or anti-Hillary tweets and FB postings were thrown out and barred regularly. I know this first hand by having a FB friend who hates Obama, he was banned. And he wasn't even incendiary; he's a rabbi in South Florida who says Obama is pro-Palenstinian!! And they tossed him.
And then we have this data, data, data point you are continuing to make. NN is much more serious than this being strictly a 'data' issue. It is not just about data as you continue to mention.
But let's talk data. Why should an ISP be forced by the government to charge the same amount of money for their internet service to someone who just sends email and photos to their grandchildren as opposed to the person who stays online all day on Facebook or Twitter? Or streams movies on Fire stick for many hours and hours at a time?
You do know that the then Net Neutrality bill had different provisions for ISP and telecoms than the NN provisions 'imposed' on liberal creeps such as Twitter, Google and Facebook -- who were very huge Obama donors, btw.
Oh I see... you probably didn't know that.
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12-15-2017, 04:46 PM
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#50
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
I never claimed to be smart only that people such as yourself (most especially) make me look so smart.
By the way it was ET who brought Netflix (an apple) and your website (an orange) into this discussion. So...my question to him is legit. He obviously is willing to "patronize" your free site, but not so much with Netflix who is in the business of selling entertainment. Got it now? It really is easy.
But this gets even better: When NN was in force, Netflix still wasn't free to anyone, and I seriously doubt that is going to change now, after the government reverted back to the way things were in the good ol' days.
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Sigh. The discussion you were having with him had nothing to do with the price Netflix charges for its services.
Other than the fact that Netflix might start charging more because they themselves are faced with higher access fees charged them by internet service providers due to the elimination of NN...that's but one scenario...
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12-15-2017, 05:41 PM
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#51
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,455
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"FaceBook is a platform for FREE speech!"
---------The new owner of the Brooklyn Bridge
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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12-15-2017, 05:50 PM
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Sigh. The discussion you were having with him had nothing to do with the price Netflix charges for its services.
Other than the fact that Netflix might start charging more because they themselves are faced with higher access fees charged them by internet service providers due to the elimination of NN...that's but one scenario...
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Oh...so ET was proffering a theory that now that NN has been rescinded, things would not go back to the way they were prior to NN being implemented but rather now those evil capitalistic, for-profit ISPs would get greedy and charge Netflix users more dough rei me for consuming so much bandwith. Two things: First it's a theory. Secondly, a rather dumb one since in a free market the market will ultimately determine what is fair and/or what the market itself will bear. It's also a crazy theory because why should the ISPs play wild and loose with consumers or content providers? Who is going to win in such a move? At the end of the day, content providers and ISPs need Joe Blow Consumer.
Further, ET's attempted analogy is rather poor; for he's comparing raw "data" consumption with streaming. With the former, the end user might not be very inclined to concern himself with "quality" data transfers to and fro; whereas with the latter, the quality of streaming and, therefore, viewing experience, can be adversely affected if one's speed is not fast enough. Speaking from first hand experience with my ISP after I upgraded to fiber optics, they initially suggested that I go with a faster speed to improve streaming quality, which tends to be quite noticeable. At first I ignored them. But then after a couple of months I upgraded a couple of notches and everything was fine. But then eventually, because of another totally unrelated issue I had with my ISP which involved my threat to dump them, I negotiated for their best speed internet service for just slightly more than they wanted to charge me for the appreciably slower speed at which I was operating. Bottom line: It all worked out. Free markets work. Money talks wherever there is competition. And all the BS, especially about NN, walks.
So, you wanna do another scenario? Netflix this month is increasing by $1. their monthly subscription fee. I accepted the increase because I think it's reasonable. But what would happen if they decided to increase their fee by $10.? I would cancel in a heartbeat, and I'm quite sure many other subscribers would as well. Since most businesses are in business to grow their business, then such a move by Netflix would ultimately be self-defeating.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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12-15-2017, 06:16 PM
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
When did we move to communism?
So your objection is that you don't want to pay Netflix's subscription price? I gladly pay Netflix's price. Now...if PA charged to access his site....then I would have take that under advisement.
I know what you could use for Christmas: A large crying towel.
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You are simply not understanding the issue.
You have an ISP. You pay them x amount for x amount of data and bandwidth. You also have a Netflix account. You pay them X amount for their streaming services.
Removal of NN allows your ISP to CHARGE you more simply to use Netflix. Not because of data or bandwidth usage... simply because they feel like it. OR they will charge Netflix who will then pass the burden on to you.
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12-15-2017, 06:17 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
"FaceBook is a platform for FREE speech!"
---------The new owner of the Brooklyn Bridge
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Tom the some of the stuff you say on here would get your ass beat in a N.Y. minute out in the real world. For the most part it's cool though we all get your schtick.
But one can only wonder what your FB feed looks like.
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12-15-2017, 06:18 PM
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Sigh. The discussion you were having with him had nothing to do with the price Netflix charges for its services.
Other than the fact that Netflix might start charging more because they themselves are faced with higher access fees charged them by internet service providers due to the elimination of NN...that's but one scenario...
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He simply isnt comprehending.
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12-15-2017, 06:25 PM
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Oh my, for such a self-proclaimed "smart guy," you sure are having a problem with the easy stuff.
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A lot of people here will be pissed when sites like drudge, infowars, and Breitbart suddenlynstart running slower.
This is the antithesis of free speech.
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12-15-2017, 07:12 PM
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Removal of NN allows your ISP to CHARGE you more simply to use Netflix. Not because of data or bandwidth usage... simply because they feel like it. OR they will charge Netflix who will then pass the burden on to you.
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It allows it, but they have to tell you. That would put them at a competitive disadvantage.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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12-15-2017, 07:13 PM
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
A lot of people here will be pissed when sites like drudge, infowars, and Breitbart suddenlynstart running slower.
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That would be considered an enhancement for people who move their lips when they read.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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12-15-2017, 07:28 PM
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
It allows it, but they have to tell you. That would put them at a competitive disadvantage.
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Not really.
Most places only have a couple of carriers available.
It's allowing a corporation to steer how you access the internet monetarily. Think Comcast won't come down hard on streaming services and I've got a bridge to sell you.
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12-15-2017, 08:21 PM
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
You are simply not understanding the issue.
You have an ISP. You pay them x amount for x amount of data and bandwidth. You also have a Netflix account. You pay them X amount for their streaming services.
Removal of NN allows your ISP to CHARGE you more simply to use Netflix. Not because of data or bandwidth usage... simply because they feel like it. OR they will charge Netflix who will then pass the burden on to you.
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You're fretting over something that has never happened before NN was invented. Furthermore, you have no idea how the free enterprise system works. See my reply to PA.
One of the reasons millennials, snowflakes and others don't like the removal of NN is because they were all hoping for a totally free internet or an internet where everyone would be operating at the same speed. (Liberal ;politicians don't like the removal of NN for other reasons already stated by others.) I pay for high speed internet, which is why I don't worry about my ISP upcharging me for watching Netflix, Amazon or any thing else. So...if my ISP wants to get cute and upcharge me for watching steaming content, I will not only cancel my service with the content providers but will at the very least downgrade my service with my ISP and pay less to that company -- if indeed not cancel my service with them altogether. Again, such a policy by my ISP would be so customer-unfriendly that it would defeat their purpose for why they're in business in the first place.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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