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03-21-2019, 05:57 PM
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#361
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Buckle Up
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 10,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Who could doubt the "superior insight" of the Founding Fathers? They were able to practically wipe out the native American Indians...without violating any of their "constitutional rights". "Divine Council", indeed!
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Oooops…..Since I go to Harrah's Cherokee frequently, I laugh and joke with native American Indians there and have fun conversations with them....They don't ever seem unhappy....
Their favorite saying is--->Slot machines, White Man's Tombstone....
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03-21-2019, 06:03 PM
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#362
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
You do know the actual name of our country, right? The UNITED STATES of America. We are a Democratic Republic of united states. We are not a plain ol' mob rule democracy. Never have been. Never shall be.
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Never say never, Grasshopper.
Under the proposed National Popular Vote plan, states joining the compact would change their state laws to give their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote once the compact states have a total of 270 electoral votes.
If states with a total of 270 electoral votes join the compact, the plan goes into effect and the election of the president will be decided by the popular vote. To date, states with a total of 181 electoral votes have joined the compact.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-21-2019, 06:34 PM
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#363
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,446
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Not go throw another monkey wrench into all of this, but if we get rid of the EC, it follows logically that we also ditch the entire senate.
__________________
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03-21-2019, 06:57 PM
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#364
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Not go throw another monkey wrench into all of this, but if we get rid of the EC, it follows logically that we also ditch the entire senate.
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We are never going to get rid of the Electoral College. Are you saying that a work-around like the National Popular Vote (NPV) would require getting rid of the Senate?
The NPV is something some people think will effectively render the EC moot, but there are a lot of hidden ticking time bombs in the plan that a lot of fans would be very upset with if it came to pass.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-21-2019, 07:04 PM
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#365
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,446
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No, just saying if we abandon the EC, then is makes sense to look at the Senate, which is similar in it's inequity, where California and Rhode Island count as equals. Just pondering.
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03-21-2019, 07:26 PM
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#366
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
No, just saying if we abandon the EC, then is makes sense to look at the Senate, which is similar in it's inequity, where California and Rhode Island count as equals. Just pondering.
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Got it. To get rid of the Senate, or really get rid of the EC rather than build a goofy and shaky way around it like the NPV plan, requires a constitutional amendment. And that requires ratifying by 38 states. Getting rid of the Senate would greatly harm the smaller states, and it would take just 13 of them to stop it.
So 13 states started it, and now 13 states can keep it.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-21-2019, 07:39 PM
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#367
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,446
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So we've come full circle!
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03-21-2019, 07:49 PM
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#368
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Not go throw another monkey wrench into all of this, but if we get rid of the EC, it follows logically that we also ditch the entire senate.
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Now you're talking.
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03-21-2019, 08:23 PM
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#369
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Ultra MAGA "Gun Bitch"
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Western NY
Posts: 5,239
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I think it was Ben Franklin that said something like "A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch."
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03-21-2019, 09:17 PM
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#370
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom
Not go throw another monkey wrench into all of this, but if we get rid of the EC, it follows logically that we also ditch the entire senate.
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See... I actually think the Senate... because its the other fairly undemocratic system becomes even more important if you got rid of the EC.
It would be the bulwark for defending states rights.
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Dumbest timeline confirmed...
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03-21-2019, 09:20 PM
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#371
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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The same people on here talking about how brilliant the Electoral College creators were are forgetting that agreement came to exist at the same time the 3/5ths Compromise was hammered out.
The whole point was weakening Virginia.
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Dumbest timeline confirmed...
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03-21-2019, 09:45 PM
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#372
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 17,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
See... I actually think the Senate... because its the other fairly undemocratic system becomes even more important if you got rid of the EC.
It would be the bulwark for defending states rights.
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There is no way the EC is going away. Those behind the National Popular vote plan understand that, and think this is a way for the big states to work around it.
If the NPV plan ever gets the support it needs, participation by states with 270 EC votes, years of law suits will quickly ensue, challenging the legality and constitutionality.
And if it gets states with 270 EC votes, there is nothing to keep those states in the compact. The first time a state's popular vote is for one party, but the compact forces it to give its EC votes to the other party, there will be hell to pay at the state capital.
__________________
A man's got to know his limitations. -- Dirty Harry
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03-21-2019, 10:51 PM
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#373
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clocker
Never say never, Grasshopper.
Under the proposed National Popular Vote plan, states joining the compact would change their state laws to give their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote once the compact states have a total of 270 electoral votes.
If states with a total of 270 electoral votes join the compact, the plan goes into effect and the election of the president will be decided by the popular vote. To date, states with a total of 181 electoral votes have joined the compact.
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So the "smarties" in the most populous states would throw their constituents interests under the rug for mob rule?
Basically a few elites would decide that Wisconsin, Michigan, NC, VA, Ohio, and/or Pennsylvania would flip Blue because their besty in NY told them too?
Are they Twitter/Instagram/Facebook friends?
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03-21-2019, 11:43 PM
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#374
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tmrpots
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker
Does anybody honestly want California deciding our POTUS every 4 years?
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Was it OK with you in 1980, 1984 and 1988?
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03-22-2019, 12:41 AM
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#375
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barn32
Was it OK with you in 1980, 1984 and 1988?
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Electoral College vote all had CA
80: 485 ECVs
84: 525 ECVs
88: 426 ECVs
All by a 9 point difference, or more, in popular vote across the country. Shocking that the 80s are still remembered as some of the greatest times in American history.
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