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Old 03-21-2019, 02:50 PM   #346
elysiantraveller
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Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker View Post
The 3 million popular vote difference total can all be found in 5 counties of LA, Chicago, and New York. The rest of the country was pretty well split.
But here is where we are talking past eachother...

You want those votes to count for less than your own...

Hence why its a bad system. At the very least its undemocratic as hell...
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:53 PM   #347
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The electoral college is a brilliant idea conceived with such a prescient and accurate look to the future, it’s hard to conceive that the founders could actually come up with it.

It was debated as a way to keep bullies and demagogues from obtaining office. Seems to work.........
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:56 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by elysiantraveller View Post
But here is where we are talking past eachother...

You want those votes to count for less than your own...

Hence why its a bad system. At the very least its undemocratic as hell...

We aren't a Democracy.

You do know the actual name of our country, right? The UNITED STATES of America. We are a Democratic Republic of united states. We are not a plain ol' mob rule democracy. Never have been. Never shall be.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:03 PM   #349
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Totals for top 11 states for 270

Trump- 152

Hillary- 118


The rest of the country for 268

Trump- 154

Hillary- 114


No matter how you slice and dice the totals, Hillary had no path to victory...
I was just pointing out the equally balanced totals between the 11 states for 270, versus the rest of the country at 268....Looks like the EC works fine as intended.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:09 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker View Post
We aren't a Democracy.

You do know the actual name of our country, right? The UNITED STATES of America. We are a Democratic Republic of united states. We are not a plain ol' mob rule democracy. Never have been. Never shall be.
Again...

You want the votes of others to mean less than yours....
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:11 PM   #351
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The electoral college is a brilliant idea conceived with such a prescient and accurate look to the future, it’s hard to conceive that the founders could actually come up with it.

It was debated as a way to keep bullies and demagogues from obtaining office. Seems to work.........
It was a way of trying to cripple the power of Virginia...
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:17 PM   #352
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Again...

You want the votes of others to mean less than yours....

At least we have the perfect emoji for people who never listen to anything outside of their own point of view or echo chamber.

Our constitution that has worked for nearly 250 years is now somehow incredibly obsolete on numerous accounts because Hillary Clinton lost an election she was "supposed" to never lose. Truly unbelievable.

Hillary wins, none of the shit that is coming forth among the 2020 Dem candidates is even being talked about.

Absolute complete batshit craziness after a single election loss; and our constitution is under attack.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:23 PM   #353
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It seems as if our Founding Fathers were guided by Divine Council, as I am humbled by their superior foresight of the problems in the future that would surface and how they prepared the necessary instruments to protect ourselves from manipulation and destruction.

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Old 03-21-2019, 03:40 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker View Post
At least we have the perfect emoji for people who never listen to anything outside of their own point of view or echo chamber.

Our constitution that has worked for nearly 250 years is now somehow incredibly obsolete on numerous accounts because Hillary Clinton lost an election she was "supposed" to never lose. Truly unbelievable.

Hillary wins, none of the shit that is coming forth among the 2020 Dem candidates is even being talked about.

Absolute complete batshit craziness after a single election loss; and our constitution is under attack.
Its been 2 out of the last 5 dude...

Secondly... again you want to play partisanship and I don't. That's why you keep injecting emotional language into the discussion.

On merits itself... your position isn't the strongest.

Like I said something like Tom's system makes tons more sense than what we currently have.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:05 PM   #355
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The EC has worked five of the last five times. In fact, it's undefeated.

The "crime" would be to deviate from the founding fathers intentions. They got it right.

Let the cry babies whine about the EC. Doesnt matter.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:24 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by JustRalph View Post
The electoral college is a brilliant idea conceived with such a prescient and accurate look to the future, it’s hard to conceive that the founders could actually come up with it.

It was debated as a way to keep bullies and demagogues from obtaining office. Seems to work.........
Not when you really about it, many protections to stop those who follow from taking good work apart. Everything culminates making our United States Constution and the Bill of Rights with the most resilant foundations possible. All things considered great things by men who were not perfect.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:27 PM   #357
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It was a way of trying to cripple the power of Virginia...
As long as it cripples ultra liberals from gaining any traction I am elated.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:51 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker View Post
We aren't a Democracy.

You do know the actual name of our country, right? The UNITED STATES of America. We are a Democratic Republic of united states. We are not a plain ol' mob rule democracy. Never have been. Never shall be.
The mob that lives around Washington DC disagrees with you and are resisting.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:22 PM   #359
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It seems as if our Founding Fathers were guided by Divine Council, as I am humbled by their superior foresight of the problems in the future that would surface and how they prepared the necessary instruments to protect ourselves from manipulation and destruction.
Who could doubt the "superior insight" of the Founding Fathers? They were able to practically wipe out the native American Indians...without violating any of their "constitutional rights". "Divine Council", indeed!

As far as the EC is concerned...I agree with Husker. This is the "United States"...with each state being afforded the opportunity of crafting starkly different governing laws from one another. The Founding Fathers' intention obviously was to keep the separatism of the states alive...and to change things up now would mean that Trump has been able to shake this counry's political system, to its very foundation.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:55 PM   #360
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So, by implication, the Founding Fathers, and the country over the succesive 200 plus years, was right wing?
I asked a question. Essentially, how could anyone come to the conclusion that a system where every vote counts is somehow leftist? It's neither left wing nor right wing, and it is a perfectly fair system where EVERY VOTE COUNTS. There is no implication that if it is not left it is right. Completely spurious conclusion.

I never liked the electoral college. The reason is that it negates the votes of some percentage of the people. The presidential elections in 2000 and 2016 exposed the defect in the current system. And by the way, 240 years ago there weren't 50 states. The great fear, which apparently still exists, is that the more populous places would control the vote. So the fact the a clear majority voted for Al Gore and Hillary Clinton is dismissed in an effort to elevate the influence of Wyoming?

If everybody has a vote, and the one who gets the most votes wins, how can that be anything but fair? At this point in history, the electoral college that worked with 13 states doesn't work for 50 states. I'm sure there is some percentage of the "left-wing" who don't even bother voting in Alabama or Mississippi because they know their vote doesn't count. We can hardly get 50% of eligible voters to show up, but when ALL the votes are equal, that may stimulate a higher level of voting.

In baseball, the team with the most runs wins. In basketball and football it is the team with the most points. It's as American as apple pie that more beats less. When more loses to an archaic, indefensible scheme, you lose me. If I don't like the electoral college it has nothing to do with left or right. It has to do with what I see as fair/unfair.
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